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  • "PhsycoDragon" started this thread

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Saturday, March 8th 2014, 11:06am

A nerf to the L85A2, a buff to the ACE 23

So DICE decided to nerf the L85A2 for what reason I do not know. Probably because the real life ROF is 610-775. But, answer me this, is BF4 real life? No, no its not. The L85A2 was strictly a close range weapon. Its recoil made it useless at longer ranges. Now the M416 has a ROF of 750, no recoil and extremely good at long range. The ACE 23 has 770 ROF, very little recoil and also good at rang. Then we get the F2000, which also has great hipfire, and a ROF of 850. So, after the patch the L85A2 does not have a fighting chance against these weapons. So can we please ask DICE to change it back.

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Saturday, March 8th 2014, 11:14am

The L85 is absolutely not useless at ranges past CQB and if you think so you weren't getting the most out of it.

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Saturday, March 8th 2014, 11:30am

So DICE decided to nerf the L85A2 for what reason I do not know. Probably because the real life ROF is 610-775. But, answer me this, is BF4 real life? No, no its not. The L85A2 was strictly a close range weapon. Its recoil made it useless at longer ranges. Now the M416 has a ROF of 750, no recoil and extremely good at long range. The ACE 23 has 770 ROF, very little recoil and also good at rang. Then we get the F2000, which also has great hipfire, and a ROF of 850. So, after the patch the L85A2 does not have a fighting chance against these weapons. So can we please ask DICE to change it back.

Yes, I suppose the terrible horizontal recoil and fsm make it completely useless at range. As well as the ability to completely eliminate fsm by putting on an angled fore grip and also the possible addition of a heavy barrel to take advantage of said nonexistent fsm. AND the 640m/s bullet velocity, my god that's absolutely terrible.

It might be a bullpup and have above average hip fire but the horrible reload makes it a very dubious choice for going aggressive with in CQC. So no, it is in no way "strictly a close range weapon".

  • "PhsycoDragon" started this thread

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Saturday, March 8th 2014, 12:08pm

Ok so it can work for long range, but it is much better for short range. Now that I used it for the first time since the update, I can definitely feel something is different.

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Saturday, March 8th 2014, 3:09pm

I do not see why they are "nerfing" a weapon that no one thought was overpowered in the first place.

I thought the consensus on the L85A2 was that it had a great rate of fire, mainly balanced by a slightly higher base spread when ADS and longer reload time than most other assault rifles. Everyone was fine with this, and it had its own little niche.

Now it is just a 750 RPM AR with crappy base spread, below average spread increase, atrocious reload speed with little upside other than slightly better hipfire and spread when moving.

  • "PhsycoDragon" started this thread

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Saturday, March 8th 2014, 3:57pm

The L85 is absolutely not useless at ranges past CQB and if you think so you weren't getting the most out of it.
So do you think the L85 needed a nerf?

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Saturday, March 8th 2014, 4:02pm

If you compare bullpubs to weapons with the same ROF you will find that bullpubs always have higher horizontal recoil, with the exeption of the l85a2 before the patch.

Thats just the way dice chose to balance the bullpub advantages.

Thats why i think 750 rpm for the l85 is justified, especially because the alternative would have been an increase to horizontal recoil.

(Now if only they would fix that spread increase, everything would be alright in my opinion)

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Saturday, March 8th 2014, 6:31pm

If you compare bullpubs to weapons with the same ROF you will find that bullpubs always have higher horizontal recoil, with the exeption of the l85a2 before the patch.

Thats just the way dice chose to balance the bullpub advantages.

Thats why i think 750 rpm for the l85 is justified, especially because the alternative would have been an increase to horizontal recoil.

(Now if only they would fix that spread increase, everything would be alright in my opinion)

I'm inclined to agree. I would be happy with the RoF reduction if they make it more accurate at range.

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Saturday, March 8th 2014, 7:38pm

If you compare bullpubs to weapons with the same ROF you will find that bullpubs always have higher horizontal recoil, with the exeption of the l85a2 before the patch.

Thats just the way dice chose to balance the bullpub advantages.

Thats why i think 750 rpm for the l85 is justified, especially because the alternative would have been an increase to horizontal recoil.

(Now if only they would fix that spread increase, everything would be alright in my opinion)

then i'd prefer the Hrecoil increase as we already have 750rpm guns,but no full-auto800rpm guns,better a not-so-precise 800rpm ar than ANOTHER 650-750 kind-of-precise ar.
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Saturday, March 8th 2014, 8:06pm

Lets do something that nobody ever does here anymore (please just humor me), and lets consult the game stats to see if the nerf was fair or not.

The guns discussed in this thread are as follows: L85A2, ACE 23, and F2000, so lets compare all of those.

ACE 23 vs L85A2:

As you can see, the main advantages that the ACE 23 has over the L85 is ADS spread and horizontal recoil. This implies that the ACE 23 is intended to be used while aiming down sight, which it is, putting it solidly in the medium range category of assault rifles, it is not the best up close, it is not the best at long range. The L85A2 on the other hand, has better hipfire spread stats across the board, and only 3% lower ROF than the ACE. All of this is being calculated before adding attachments, mind you, and so the advantages at close range that the L85 has over the ACE would be exaggerated if a laser sight and ergo grip were attached to it.

In short for ACE vs L85: ACE wins out at medium range, L85 wins out at close range, neither win at long range.

F2000 vs L85A2:

You would imagine that this is the comparison where the guns would be somewhat similar, but that is not the case. The F2000 of course has a higher ROF, 13% higher to be exact, and 44% less vertical recoil, it also recovers from recoil much faster than the L85 does, but lets talk about that for a second. How much does vertical recoil actually affect a gun when being used in hipfire? Which is really what we're talking about right now. I hipfire a lot, and it is very apparent to me that vertical recoil is not as severe of a penalty when firing from the hip; nor is it hard to compensate for, as it is just vertical recoil. The only advantage the F2000 has over the L85 in a realistic situation is the higher ROF. But lets see what the L85 has to offer. 38% and 50% less recoil to the left and right respectively, and also a 50% lower FSM. This tells us that the L85 beats out the F2000 in ADS fire.

In short for F2k vs L85: F2k shoots faster, L85 shoots more efficiently.


Now if we are to combine the results of those comparisons we can see that the L85 has advantages over one in hipfire, and advantages over the other in ADS fire, this would put the L85 between them in terms of effective range, making it a more versatile gun than either of the other two, it performs well enough to defend yourself at close range, given good reaction time and some good aim, and it also does well at dispatching enemies in medium range with its decent ADS accuracy. I have used the L85 quite a bit since it came out, and I have to say that this ROF nerf was justified. All of the comparisons i've just made are using the new 750 RPM ROF that the L85 has now, instead of the 800 it had before, had this comparison been made last week, the L85 would have had advantages over both of the other assault rifles in more than one aspect, which would have made it the better all around gun, which it was.