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VincentNZ

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11

Tuesday, March 4th 2014, 1:22pm


I mean right now there's virtually no reason to use half of the PDWs when you have the AS-Val, CZ-3A1, PDW-R and MP7 floating around. The others wont see much competitive play unless they're made somewhat unique in certain aspects.


I doubt that any of the PDWs will see competitive play, when you have the carbines as all class weapons.
I don't play competitively so I might be wrong on this one, but by design they are limited to close quarter combat, and are therefore useless on most maps where you would run engineer.


The problem is, even in their designated role they are outgunned. Hipfiring in CQ with this damage output can be achieved equally good, when wielding a carbine, bullpup AR, or a shotgun. Add to that that most engagements require you to go ADS you will always be better off with a carbine. Therefore the ovious choices in the PDW classes to maximize their strengths or negate their weaknesses are clear: The Val and the PDW-R.
You could make a case for the CZ and MP7 as well, but carbines offer better damages. They do compete within the PDW class but are underwhelming on the whole. That however makes the whole weapon class largely obsolete. Meaning that there possibly is no weapon worse than the CBJ-MS, not even the U-100.

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12

Tuesday, March 4th 2014, 1:35pm


I mean right now there's virtually no reason to use half of the PDWs when you have the AS-Val, CZ-3A1, PDW-R and MP7 floating around. The others wont see much competitive play unless they're made somewhat unique in certain aspects.


I doubt that any of the PDWs will see competitive play, when you have the carbines as all class weapons.
I don't play competitively so I might be wrong on this one, but by design they are limited to close quarter combat, and are therefore useless on most maps where you would run engineer.
Yep, giving PDW's to engineers makes little sense the way this game is played. In my opinion it would have been better if they replaced the BAR's with PDW's for the Recon class and renamed it Spec ops or something.
Pokeballs, C4 and a suppressed SMG. It would be beautiful.


But that's never going to happen.


Ermmm.... There's nothing really stopping you from using the recon class with pokeballs, C4 and a good hip-fire carbine (bullpup).

My point it that what the PDWs seem to do best compared to all the other weapon classes, is hip-fire. Again, I don't have experience playing competitively, but from I've seen usually hip-fire is not used "that" much. So building a kit around it is not going to pay off.
Most good players will head-glitch your hip-firing ass.


Yeah, I think you're right. I'm usualy using a suppressed MTAR whenever I'm playing recon and it works like a charm, but I've always felt like PDW's should belong to a class more fit for stealth and reconnaissance.
It probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense since, just like you said, PDW's strength lies in their hipfire capabilities, but a supressor on a PDW just looks and feels right to me becauuse you get the "secret agent" feel to it.

It's not only for cosmetic reasons though. I do believe that a class like the Recon could allow players to better plan their movement with close quarters weapons because of their ability to spot targets out of their line of sight with various gadgets.

Building a class around the PDW is a pretty bad idea, I agree, but giving them to the engineers as an alternative to carbines is just a waste imo.
"Not afraid of god-like opponents, just afraid of pig-like teammates."

C0llis

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13

Tuesday, March 4th 2014, 3:21pm

Regarding buffing th CBJ-MS by buffing end damage: it would not work since it would still be inferior to carbines both at range and up close. A long(medium) -range PDW would never be able to compete with carbines at range, and there would be no reason to pick something that is sub par in both those areas.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

VincentNZ

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14

Tuesday, March 4th 2014, 3:42pm

In my book the biggest problems PDWs have is their nerf of max damage (which was largely similar to that off ARs and carbines in BF3) in correlation with their now higher spread increase and mostly body armour. So we are now using pure CQ weapons with a higher spread increase, higher FSM on larger maps with larger distances on firefights that do less damage, while making a weapon class that is notably better in all but one respect, all-class.

Basically this is not one problem but many in a nutshell. Fun-fact though, in SA, them being BF3 maps, PDWs and Shotguns work better, though still being vehicle centered thx to cover. Something DICE might want to keep in mind.

Witchalok

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15

Tuesday, March 4th 2014, 3:42pm

I would say that the 22 damage is an error on DICE's end and that it should have been 25. It should be a slightly faster firing PP-2000 (25 - 12.1 damage model) but with worse medium/long range performance to compensate for it.
It is the only 12.1 minimum damage PDW that does not do 25 max damage.

/end of thread

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16

Sunday, March 16th 2014, 10:30am

CBJ-Ms is a long range PDW, so dice should make lower horizontal to .3, and increase the end damage like 16.5, increase muzzle velocity to 600 and the bullet drop is 9m/s.

NoctyrneSAGA

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17

Sunday, March 16th 2014, 10:47am

long range PDW


You're joking right? The CBJ-MS is for CQC just like all the other PDWs. And it does a damn good job. I didn't encounter any particular trouble when I was Battlepacking it. In fact, it killed people fine at close range, long range, and in-between.
Data Browser

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  • "HolyBalls111" started this thread

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18

Monday, March 17th 2014, 7:54pm

Regarding buffing th CBJ-MS by buffing end damage: it would not work since it would still be inferior to carbines both at range and up close. A long(medium) -range PDW would never be able to compete with carbines at range, and there would be no reason to pick something that is sub par in both those areas.


Yeah, carbines will always win at long range (unless its UMP, PDWR, or Val) but the CBJ plays out like a mini support weapon - it has 50 rounds, which is actually a considerable advantage, especially when it has a reload around that of the MTAR and A-91. So, if they could make it take just one less shot at range, it could be to carbines what LMGs are to ARs - less accurate, but more ammo. I'd even argue that it should have 100 rounds like IRL because then it wouldn't just be a slow P90.

]is the only 12.1 minimum damage PDW that does not do 25 max damage.[/u][/b]/end of thread


It's actually 12.5, which isn't too much of a difference with the Defensive Perk, but it means it's 8 shots rather than 9 shots at max range.

/end of thread[/quote]
CBJ-Ms is a long range PDW, so dice should make lower horizontal to .3, and increase the end damage like 16.5, increase muzzle velocity to 600 and the bullet drop is 9m/s.


Wow - 16.5 would be a bit overkill. If DICE just made it 14.6, the gun could have 7 shot end dmg (against unarmored) like the carbines, but I don't think bullet drop and further velocity increase is going to change anything (it already has a higher velocity than most carbines). Of course, lower the horizontal recoil should be a no brainer on DICE's part - no gun 700 rpm or lower should have equal .4 h recoil, especially one that already always takes 5 shots or more to kill.

Obviously, the CBJ isn't meant for SAR-21 range , or even ACW-R range, but, I do think this PDW has the potential for the perfect "co-pilot" weapon - I will often team up with a friend in a scout heli and give him reps, using the PDW-R and SMAW for ground targets. Yet a weapon with 50+ rounds would be much better for this role - especially if it has a +500 m/s velocity. If the CBJ took one less shot to kill at range (since base dmg won't make a different in this situation) and had less h recoil, I'd take it even over the AK5C (because of the mag size). I wish there was a way to tell DICE this, because such changes would make this PDW have an actually place in the game (and then it would be time to fix the PP-2000, UMP-9, MX4, and P90).

  • "HolyBalls111" started this thread

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19

Monday, March 17th 2014, 8:10pm


I mean right now there's virtually no reason to use half of the PDWs when you have the AS-Val, CZ-3A1, PDW-R and MP7 floating around. The others wont see much competitive play unless they're made somewhat unique in certain aspects.


I doubt that any of the PDWs will see competitive play, when you have the carbines as all class weapons.
I don't play competitively so I might be wrong on this one, but by design they are limited to close quarter combat, and are therefore useless on most maps where you would run engineer.


The problem is, even in their designated role they are outgunned. Hipfiring in CQ with this damage output can be achieved equally good, when wielding a carbine, bullpup AR, or a shotgun. Add to that that most engagements require you to go ADS you will always be better off with a carbine. Therefore the ovious choices in the PDW classes to maximize their strengths or negate their weaknesses are clear: The Val and the PDW-R.
You could make a case for the CZ and MP7 as well, but carbines offer better damages. They do compete within the PDW class but are underwhelming on the whole. That however makes the whole weapon class largely obsolete. Meaning that there possibly is no weapon worse than the CBJ-MS, not even the U-100.


To be honest, while the PDW-R is my favorite gun in the game, I find that it even doesn't have a place in the game. Sure, the hip fire is fantastic (best in the game, better spread increase than P90) -you don't even need a laser sight, but, because of the default .5 ADS spread or the heavy barrel recoil you're practically forced to equip, it doesn't feel like you're getting an advantage you would get using the MTAR which has much faster rpm and velocity and even acceptable hip fire with just a laser, or the AKU which is much more controllable and amazing for long range (for an engineer). If the PDR was 770-800, it would make more sense IMO.

The AS Val, even with the nerf, still out damages all carbines, and it's recoil is tamable (unlike the F2000 or A91) with a no brainer angled grip (and thats another problem with the PDR - no under barrel spot - same with the JS2, P90, P2000, and CBJ). The CZA3 has a place tho - no automatic weapon beats 1000 rpm with 25 base damage, 1.0 hip spread, and 30 rounds. And the MP7, while having a shitty drop off like most PDWs, deserves some recognition for 950 rpm and 45 rounds, even with 20 base DMG. the new SR-2 looks really promising (return of the MP5K?) too...

But anyway, the majority of the PDW's are shit.

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20

Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 4:01am

The AS Val, even with the nerf, still out damages all carbines, and it's recoil is tamable (unlike the F2000 or A91) with a no brainer angled grip (and thats another problem with the PDR - no under barrel spot - same with the JS2, P90, P2000, and CBJ).

The PDR has an ergo grip built in, same as other PDWs that don't have an underbarrel slot.