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  • "Vanch" started this thread

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Wednesday, December 18th 2013, 5:42am

Confused About Which Attachments To Use

Hey guys... I play Assault and like to use Assault Rifles as opposed to Carbines, Shotguns etc. For quite some time now I have been searching around for the right Assault Rifle to use until I unlocked the Ace 23. Hearing many great things about the gun, I decided to use it as my main Assault Rifle. It has been great so far, but I have a problem... At medium to long(ish) range, the recoil on the gun just seems to go all over the place. I emptied a whole magazine on somebody at long(ish) range a couple of rounds ago, and only ONE bullet him them, the rest were just flying past them because the gun was recoiling all over the place.

I started off using the AK-12 which was absolutely great at medium to long range due to hardly any recoil at all, but at close range it didn't seem nearly as good because of the slow rate of fire.

My problem is, I guess I'm looking for a gun that can perform moderately (not necessarily AMAZINGLY) at all ranges, whether it be short, medium or long. I thought that the Ace 23 was the gun for this, but at long(ish) range I just seem to suck with it. I'm just wondering if perhaps it's something to do with my attachments, so if you guys could give me some advice I'd really appreciate it.


AK-12 Setup

Laser Sight
Heavy Barrell
Angled Grip



I used the Heavy Barrel on this gun, as it's stability is so high anyway, I figured using the Heavy Barrel wouldn't cause my stability to decrease too much, and I'd of course then have the added accuracy bonus.


ACE 23 Setup

Laser Sight
Flash Hider
Stubby Grip

I used the flash hider, as it doesn't provide any negatives or positives, instead of using the Heavy Barrel due to it reducing my stability.




The screenshots shown are the stats of the weapons WITH the attachments added. As you can see, I have tried to make the Accuracy and Stability as equal as possible, which is why on the AK-12 it is 63/63 and on the Ace 23 it is 55/55. This sort of keeps me on even ground, so I'm not thinking constantly "does my accuracy/stability need changing?"


Oh and one other thing is, just so you know, I'm not particularly interested in hip fire attachments whatsoever, as I very rarely hip fire. I'm prone to aiming down the sight even in close range, which is probably not the right thing to do, but it's my style of play, so hip fire attachments would just go to waste for me. I know the laser sight is a hip fire benefit, but it's the only attachment of it's range that actually GIVES any stat benefit, so I figured why not.


Anyway, if you guys could take a look at my attachments and what I've said, and perhaps give me some advice/tips, like I said above it would be very much appreciated as I'm constantly changing guns right now and can't decide on the right one to use, which is getting frustrating.


Thank you.

NoctyrneSAGA

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Wednesday, December 18th 2013, 5:54am

For starters: NEVER EVER use Battlelog stats. They are arbitrary measurements for arbitrary metrics with arbitrary reviews. I REPEAT: Battlelog stats mean nothing, nada, nil, zilch. Use this site's data extracts instead. I'll even add links for you to look at.

That said, ARs should not be performiing well at long range at all. There's a reason why the minimum damage for the ARs is 18. That is a 6 shot kill with chestshots, without Body Armor. Then you have to consider that the weapon spread shouldn't be allowing you to engage at ~100m at all. That would be your problem moreso than the recoil when you magdumped on a guy and got only one round in. If you're going to go for the distant targets, you have to tap if you want any hope of reaching the target.

If you really want something that helps you engage at long range, you have to use the Heavy Barrel. There's no other way around it. You can try every other attachment, but you will not see a benefit to your spread that surpasses the Heavy Barrel. Even then, you need to ask yourself why you're even trying to do long range engagements with an AR at all. Having considered that, the Heavy Barrel is still good for your medium range engagements. And if you read through all the analyses on this website, you'd find that running anything but the Heavy Barrel is simply sacrificing power for control. Again, just what does "STABILITY" on Battlelog mean? It means nothing if you learn to properly control recoil.

Either refer to the accuracy plots on this website or go fire at a wall in-game. You'll see a trend appear as to what direction your gun recoils. Pull in the exact opposite direction. This will at the very least keep your vertical recoil in check. Effective horizontal recoil, despite the many analyses here, has yet to be determined. By controlling your vertical recoil, you'll have solved one problem that's keeping you from engaging at long range. The next step is to tighten your spread or bullet deviation. As I said before, magdumping is a surefire way to make sure that the safest place on the map is in front of your gun. Hell, if it weren't for gravity, magdumping would make your bullets miss even the ground. How you control your spread is to fire in bursts. Doing so allows your spread to settle back to a more accurate value and you'll be able to hit what you're aiming at. You can also further control spread by attaching the Heavy Barrel. Again, if you really want to go for those long range kills, there is no other attachment to slap on. Either you use it or stop trying for long range engagements.

Also, from the sound of things, the grip you want to use is the Stubby/Potato Grip. This is because you have indicated a propensity for magdumping. The Stubby/Potato Grip reduces the amount of spread increase per bullet you suffer and caps the maximum spread at 66% of its original value. Analysis shows that this benefit really only shines at the ~10th consecutive bullet your gun has spat out. Of course, bursting the weapon is a far more effective way of controlling the spread than the Potato/Stubby Grip.

Taking into consideration that you will be tapping/bursting, you may want to consider the Angled/Folding Grip to reduce recoil, since you have indicated that you have trouble controlling recoil. These two grips reduce the First Shot Recoil multiplier, making the first shot of any tap, burst, or magdump recoil less than it should but still more than subsequent bullets. This recoil reduction SHOULD allow you to land more bullets IF you are tapping/bursting.

To sum things up nicely: If you still want to go for long range kills, put the Heavy Barrel on everything, no complaints. If you aren't going to use the Heavy Barrel, stop trying for long range engagements. Your Grip choice, given the facts you have mentioned, is either the Potato/Stubby or the Angled/Folding depending on whether you want more accuracy or control. Then, make sure you are not magdumping. Switch to semiauto if you have to.

Click this only if you want a rather abrasive display of what you should be doing



Recoil control is a very basic technique to improve the likelihood that you will hit your target. No matter how hard the gun kicks, you should be able to pull it right back to your original point of aim. That is what is required in engagements across all ranges. That is to say, you should be disregarding recoil no matter how daunting it may seem. From now on, recoil does not exist for you. You laugh when someone mentions that the gun is about to jump out of their hands. THAT is what you need to be able to do. A controllable gun is what unskilled peasants want because they don't have what it takes to achieve maximum killing efficiency.

Next, the numerous analyses of attachments here have shown that the Heavy Barrel is the best attachment BY FAR. If you're going to run anything else, you are either stupid or unskilled. Suppressors are the only exception and that's because they have the role of concealment. The Muzzle Brake and Compensator do not have any benefits because recoil is not real. When you compare the benefits of Heavy Barrel against the Flash Suppressor, it's a no-brainer. 50% decrease in your weapon's spread is too good to pass up (again, recoil isn't real so the 50% recoil penalty is something you're supposed to laugh off).

Then, analysis of the grips has shown that the Ergo/Vertical Grip is the best. This is because it halves the spread penalty for moving while shooting ADS and HIP. This means that you don't have to be a sitting duck while shooting to hit what you're aiming at. The Angled/Folding Grip don't do shit because recoil is not a factor. The Stubby/Potato Grip only see a benefit at ~10 round bursts. Good shooting fundamentals mean that you don't reach past 5 round bursts. The optimum burst size has been discovered to be 2.

Read more about the analysis here.

You say you want to be acceptable at all ranges? What you've shown is that you want to attract the attention of people at long range. If you want to be good at all ranges, you'll have to do the following:

  • Put Heavy Barrels and Ergo/Vertical Grips on everything.
  • Learn the recoil patterns of all the guns and how to counter them.
  • Fire no more than 2 rounds at a time.
  • Get on this site more often.


If you can't do the first three, you can forget being good at all ranges. Sure, it sounds abrasive but the fact that you read this far means you were genuinely interested despite the warning I put.

If you can do all three, then you will become a force to be reckoned with. I guarantee it.
Data Browser

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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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This post has been edited 6 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Dec 18th 2013, 6:41am)


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Wednesday, December 18th 2013, 6:02am

Dont trust the ingame stats. Go an have a lookhere.

Regarding the AK-12: Yes this gun is brilliant at longer ranges but as you said its mediocre in close quarter combat. Did you know that the angled grip only affects the first shot making it on most weapons higher than the following shots? When you are firing in burst mode the "first shot modifier" is moved to the last shot of the burst, so you are getting 2 shots with little recoil, in case of the ak-12 0.3 an the last shot gets a high recoil of 0.62. As the recoil from one shot only effects the aim of the next shot, you have an advantage when firing wiht interruptions between bursts and disadvantages when rappidly tapping your mous for many bursts in succession.
The heavy barrel is as you said good for the accuracy but doubles vertical recoil, if you can manage it good for you. The laser sight is for moving hip fire, just toggle it of (press T) if you are not in a cqb situation.

Overall the Ace 23 has a pretty good stat set and most people regard it to be the best assault rifle at the moment. The M416 is very similar, perhaps it fits your playstyle more. Do you always stay stationary while firering ads? then stick to the stubby . Do you strafy while aiming down sight? Equip a ergo grip and stick try to do no more than 5 round bursts. The recoil goes up and to the right, so you will have to move your mouse a little bit down to the left when pressing fire.

Hope i could help you.

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Wednesday, December 18th 2013, 9:20am

I think you have already picked the two best candidates for your criteria of performing all-round at all ranges. At this point you'll have to settle for either of them, because there is no 'ultimate AR' in the sense that it can excel at both long and short range. If long range is more important to you, stick with the AK-12. If you're more interested in medium-short range, use the ACE 23.

  • "Vanch" started this thread

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Wednesday, December 18th 2013, 9:51pm

That is absolutely great, thank you very much guys you've been a great help!

So basically what you're saying is I should disregard recoil and instead just learn how to control it?

If so, that would of course allow me to use attachments which increase recoil but increase accuracy (such as the Heavy Barrel) which I wasn't using before due to it reducing the stability.

I'm guessing by what you guys have said, that accuracy in BF4 is more important than stability?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Vanch" (Dec 18th 2013, 10:04pm)


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Wednesday, December 18th 2013, 10:53pm

I'm guessing by what you guys have said, that accuracy in BF4 is more important than stability?
It's more important than vertical (upwards) recoil, at least. Horizontal recoil isn't always easily compensated (it is on some weapons, although personal preference plays a role), so it is quite relevant.

Example:
The muzzle brake attachment decreases the upwards recoil but increases the spread per shot (ie. decrease in accuracy with sustained fire). Since v-recoil's not that important since you can compensate for it with enough training, the down-side weighs more than the up-side and you're generally better off not using it.

The compensator attachment, on the other hand, reduces horizontal recoil while also increasing spread per shot. Now, different weapons have different recoil patterns (very varied and personal preference matters), but it's not something you can really compensate for unless it's strongly one-directional. So, it uniquely solves a bigger problem, which is why folks use it despite the decreased accuracy over multiple shots.

Of course, if all you do is close quarters stuff the optimal set-up becomes a bit different, but for the typically Battlefield combat scenarios accuracy (spread) is definitely something to consider.
Sincerely, Kaiser Wilhelm II

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Wednesday, December 18th 2013, 10:55pm

Is it worth it to use compensators and muzzle breaks?

NoctyrneSAGA

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Wednesday, December 18th 2013, 10:57pm

@zevna

No

@Vanch

As Kaiser said, horizontal recoil is something that can't be compensated as easily as vertical recoil yet. However, asymmetrical recoil gives you a general trend that you can use and it'll be effective enough. Yes, disregard vertical recoil completely and throw it out the window. If your reaction time is fast enough, you'll be able to pull against horizontal recoil fairly quickly as well. Do not sacrifice killing power for controllability if it's not absolutely necessary.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

ViperFTW

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Wednesday, December 18th 2013, 11:27pm

A gun that works at all ranges? I've heard great things about the ACE 23 but I can also vouch for the L85 (So long as you don't mind a bit of V-recoil), 800 RPM with relatively low recoil and a bullpup bonus. Its pretty much my go-to Assault AR :)

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  • "Vanch" started this thread

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Thursday, December 19th 2013, 12:26am

OK, so I've now put Heavy Barrels on all my guns. I see you suggested putting Ergo/Vertical grips on my guns along with the Heavy Barrel. I know you said to disregard Battlelog stats, although from what I can see, the Ergo/Vertical grips just seem to improve Hip Fire accuracy which I rarely do. Do those grips infact help when ADS & moving? If so, I was just curious as to why it says it improves hip fire, as surely ADS & moving at the same time ISN'T hip fire is it?