Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Contortrix

Professional Ninja

(507)

Posts: 3,837

Date of registration
: May 27th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Germany

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 11

  • Send private message

31

Monday, December 2nd 2013, 3:48pm

Nevermind, I wasn't paying attention

Posts: 199

Date of registration
: Nov 12th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

32

Monday, December 2nd 2013, 9:56pm

i think the bipod + DMR setup shines in exactly the sort of situation where you would want a bolt action, but need to not play recon for some reason. engineers come to mind first: setting up a defensible position where you can launch SMAWs down on vehicles and harass infantry/counter-snipe against people trying to take you out is very effective. support is a less interesting choice here since the LMGs largely do the same job as the DMR better up to 100-150m. if you really wanted to stay back and mortar i suppose it could work. assault might be interesting for a DMR setup, as then you could run the MASS as your secondary and negate most of the disadvantages of the DMR for up-close encounters; this would allow you to play a true "dedicated marksman" with your squad while not being totally screwed when you get close to objectives. that said, the versatility of the assault rifles makes me think this setup is hard to justify. recons obviously don't need to bother with DMRs outside of hardcore.

Posts: 28

Date of registration
: Nov 29th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Poland

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

33

Monday, December 2nd 2013, 10:34pm

@MaxiM How is a slower ROF better? I thought spread started to settle as soon as you don't fire when the next bullet could've been fired. So if max rof is 300RPM, the spread will start to settle faster than if it's 260RPM. Say, for example, you can fire at an effective rate of 280RPM with the M39 and retain perfect accuracy, but with the ACE you can only fire at 245RPM and retain perfect accuracy.

It's not that simple with M39, because of the humongous 1st shor kick. But, I may have found one thing that makes EMB that much more usable - compensator. It's not a fast firing weapon, so the spread increase over time is nothing, but it tightens the horizontal spread to much more controllable levels. It's still not an awesome weapon by any means, but because of my love for it I'm trying "fix" it as much as I can. Slower RoF of ACE is actually better because the 1st shot kick settles so fast, you can almost shoot this gun at max. RoF.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
~George Bernard Shaw

Posts: 264

Date of registration
: Apr 26th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Belgium

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

34

Tuesday, December 3rd 2013, 2:34pm

Oh yeah, M39 kicks like a mule in all directions which forces a lower RoF unless you're the tits at compensating. But that has nothing to do with RoF in and of itself. The ACE isn't better for you because of RoF, but because of lower recoil. And the M39 isn't worse because it can fire faster, but because it's got insane recoil. And yeah, all stats are linked for balancing reasons of course. But you can't paint an upside as a downside. The SKS and QBU fire even faster and have almost no recoil, can hardly say their RoF is a drawback. It's one of the few advantages of those guns.

Anyway, I'm being a pedantic asshole, I get your point.

Posts: 257

Date of registration
: Jun 23rd 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Holland

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

35

Tuesday, December 3rd 2013, 5:57pm

Little addendum to my previous post.

I tested out the DMRs a bit longer and basically found this:

- SKS remains the king of the DMRs; however I've been messing around with some others (noticeably the ACE and SCAR) and found them to have 2 things the SKS lacks:
1) The damage model. Seems insignificant but the fact they require 1 less bullet to kill at 40-60 meter ranges makes a big difference I've noticed.
2) The bullet velocity on the SKS is soooo low. Back in BF3 you actually countered a big portion of this through the heavy barrel, but in BF4 it hinders your ability to hit on the medium-long ranges. (Note that in BF3 the heavy barrel turned the 440 m/s SKS into a 590 m/s SKS; a HUGE increase). On the other hand the SKS loses the least if you equip a silencer.

So while the SKS is still the most user friendly and arguably the best TTK DMR, I'm starting to have my doubts at it's effectiveness of the role I intend to use it at.
At close range DMRs simply don't hold up, so there is no point in trying to defend its role there.
In medium range the SKS loses out due to its lower damage model. Between 40-60ish meter it has lower TTK than the sub-300 RPM DMRs
In the longer ranges (which for DMRs is 60-100ish meter), the lower bullet velocity makes it harder to hit people.

- I have dropped the M39 personally as DMR. I feel like it doesn't live up to it's old self and frankly find it one of the less performing DMRs in the game.
The increased RoF is totally nullified by the massive recoil both horizontally as vertically.
Just to give you an idea, the 0.7 vertical recoil gives it an extra 67 ms to recover compared to weapons with 0.5 (factoring in the 2x FSM).
The extra 40 RPM means that it's 31 ms faster. So as you see that's totally nullified. So unless you're compensating like a hero, you'll have a hard time benefiting from the increased rate of fire.

- The QBU-88; though not bad is not my type of weapon. The 11 bullets per clip for me is too little to use the DMR in the function I use it at (holding down corridors / flanking people). Also the spread increase is a bit harsh.

- I'm still trying to compare the SCAR-H SV versus the ACE 53 SV and decide which I like more.
They're both very much alike; and it's basically a tossup between having:
SCAR-H: Faster Reload, Lower Base Spread, slightly lower FSM (minor as the difference is negligible)
ACE 53: Higher Muzzle velocity, Bigger magazine capacity, Lower spread increase per shot (minor as I pace my shots, so spread fully settles).

So far I think I like the ACE 53 SV more for the muzzle velocity and extra bullets. And atm this is my go to DMR for a lot of situations.

Posts: 199

Date of registration
: Nov 12th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

36

Wednesday, December 4th 2013, 12:32am

i've had surprising success with the QBU running muzzle brake and angled as it turns out; while this is theoretically a bad idea, spread increase doesn't deeply penalize you if you time your shots well so you can have a good chance of landing accurate double taps if you work the gun calmly. as it turns out, the faster recoil reset makes the reduced recoil synergize almost perfectly with the spread decrease (since the initial vertical kick of ~.4 resets in .05s, and the increased spread also resets in about .05s), meaning if you fire almost exactly every quarter-second you should always be re-zeroed at base spread with this setup with no need for recoil compensation; additionally, even with base spread, you can't miss a centered headshot because of spread within 91m (assuming a .2m circular head hitbox) . comparatively, the EMR with this type of setup resets spread in .034s but only resets recoil completely after .11s, so the best non-compensated rate of fire is only going to be every .31s with worse base spread. same deal with the ACE, where you're going to only get a non-compensated rate of fire around .31s.

that said, i'm finding the ACE SV very comfortable so far as a longer-range DMR (only about 50 kills with it at the moment, however; the recoil multiplier really doesn't hurt it as much once you have an angled grip attached, and the bullet velocity is very good. arguably the most balanced rifle in the class in many respects, with a few extra rounds in the mag as a bonus. still, i'd encourage trying this QBU setup out and seeing what you think for ranges around 80-100m. longer than that and you are better off with a heavy barrel or even with a gun like the SVD or MK11 MOD 0 due to their lower base spread.

Posts: 1,000

Date of registration
: Nov 5th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 6

  • Send private message

37

Wednesday, December 4th 2013, 6:12pm

Right now I'm going through the unlocks on the SCAR SV. I'll copy paste what I just posted on battlelog:

DMRs definitely need to be more accurate when it comes to follow up shots. I'm not sure why DICE decided to nerf both the damage AND the spread increase, only one of them would have sufficed. Now we are stuck with DMRs that kill in 3 shots min, 4 shots at range, can't OHK in close range and you need to fire them at about 150 RPM for the shots to actually land where you're aiming. This gives a ridiculously high TTK which often means you get taken down even if you hit the first shot against an AR/Carbine user. Also, even if you get the drop on someone and land first your shots, there's a decent change that he will start spraying in your direction, suppressing you. The combined effect of suppression + spread increase then makes finishing off your target extremely improbable.

That being said, what is the best setup for the SCAR? Stubby or angled? I'm thinking if I run stubby I can fire fast with less spread but the kick is gonna be harder. If I run angled I get less kick but perhaps bullets won't land where I'm aiming anyways. Does it make sense to say that if you combine stubby with heavy barrel then you get less starting spread and less spread increase so the gun should stay accurate longer as you fire it quickly?
This is where I'm coming from: Clicky

Posts: 25

Date of registration
: Jan 26th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

38

Wednesday, December 4th 2013, 7:41pm

I was using SCAR-H SV with Stubby and Heavy Barrel earlier today, it wasn't the vertical recoil that was out of my control, just felt like the spread was a bit much. Mind you I'm not spamming shots, I'm basically doing shots and letting the vertical recoil settle so I'm shooting maybe once every 3/4th of a second at medium range. Probably shouldn't even bother to use an Hbar with it. But I say tinker around using silly combinations like Compensator + Angled/Folded, or Muzzle Break + Ergo in the shooting range.

I think overall best results I have had with it was Angled and Hbar though. Or stubby and no barrel attachment (don't have Flash Hider yet).

Posts: 1,553

Date of registration
: Sep 4th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Germany

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

39

Wednesday, December 4th 2013, 8:33pm

I was using SCAR-H SV with Stubby and Heavy Barrel earlier today, it wasn't the vertical recoil that was out of my control, just felt like the spread was a bit much. Mind you I'm not spamming shots, I'm basically doing shots and letting the vertical recoil settle so I'm shooting maybe once every 3/4th of a second at medium range. Probably shouldn't even bother to use an Hbar with it. But I say tinker around using silly combinations like Compensator + Angled/Folded, or Muzzle Break + Ergo in the shooting range.

I think overall best results I have had with it was Angled and Hbar though. Or stubby and no barrel attachment (don't have Flash Hider yet).


you'd better off with angled , its only grip that's to be considered on DMRs, stubby's spread increase negation probably won't even apply bc spread settles faster than your recoil
Moving ADS spread values

WoopsyYaya - YouTube(Tipps und Tricks) [Deutsch/HD]


Show Gun Master some love <3 - Vol. 3


Funny quotes


As a main hater on this forum, I say no, it's not worth it.
I have been playing Battlefield since 1942 (the original PC game, not the year).
now I'd jerk off a hobo
With a compensator and angled grip I click people to death like I was playing diablo.
AKU-12 stomps it in the nuts and posts the video to WorldStarHipHop.

Posts: 199

Date of registration
: Nov 12th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

40

Thursday, December 5th 2013, 1:54am

i'm beginning to come to the idea that the angled grip muzzle brake or compensator are far more preferable for most DMRs than the heavy barrel, with the exception of using the heavy barrel for long-range sniping out past 150m or more (which is ineffectual outside of hardcore in most cases). simply put, the major limiting factor to rapid fire for the DMRs is recoil, since even their immense spread values decay very quickly between shots. meanwhile, the recoil of the weapon easily adds a degree of vertical kick or more and a large fraction of a degree of horizontal recoil as well. however, since the compensator and muzzle brake do not affect base spread and they don't increase spread to a degree that it doesn't almost completely decay between shots, weapons with a base spread of .1 or less really suffer more at most ranges from the additional recoil of the heavy barrel than they gain from the more rapid recoil reset from the muzzle brake or compensator.

as vertical recoil is controllable, this suggests that most DMRs do better with the compensator if you can control vertical recoil. for example, the SVD-12 recovers completely from the worst case of its horizontal recoil in (.67/6) = .11 seconds, improved to .08 seconds with a compensator, allowing a firing rate of once every .31 seconds or about 193 RPM. this is versus a stock fire rate of 176 rpm. even with the compensator, the spread settles down well ahead of horizontal recoil (.03 seconds). the M39 and QBU-88 are probably the exceptions to this rule, with the former having symmetrical recoil that is more likely to be a non-issue as compared to its huge vertical recoil, and the latter having a fast recoil reset that makes the muzzle break synergize nicely with the recoil and spread decrease to allow you to fire accurately on the same spot every quarter of a second.

this also suggests the SCAR-H SV should be the fastest gun to be back on target of the other rifles, with a total time between firing and spread/horizontal decay of only .26 seconds, giving you nearly four accurate rounds per second. its high base accuracy then makes it the best choice for accurate, repeated shots, possibly explaining why this apparently mediocre rifle is the final unlock for the weapon class.