Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

Posts: 21

Date of registration
: Sep 6th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

  • Send private message

551

Wednesday, September 17th 2014, 8:26am

i tried the m4 for the first time 2 days ago (!) and have since gotten the mastery tag. this gun is pure awesomesauce and in my opinion the strongest and most versatile of the carbines.

also, quite contrary to what other posters in this thread said, i find that it absolutely shreds people in CQB (the hipfire is insane!). i think my K/D over these 500+ kills is somewhere around 4 8|

Posts: 381

Date of registration
: Nov 22nd 2013

Platform: PC

Location: The country of 300 ping servers

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

552

Wednesday, September 17th 2014, 3:40pm

i tried the m4 for the first time 2 days ago (!) and have since gotten the mastery tag. this gun is pure awesomesauce and in my opinion the strongest and most versatile of the carbines.

also, quite contrary to what other posters in this thread said, i find that it absolutely shreds people in CQB (the hipfire is insane!). i think my K/D over these 500+ kills is somewhere around 4 8|

What was your setup with the M4? Just asking, because for me it seem like the M4/M16 are those kind of guns which are good with just about anything. In fact, I often run Underslung rail w/ M26 on my M16 to help with the 'poor' CQC performance :/



Love knows no language. Suppression knows no range.
Top 2% in the world for Suppression Assists :D

Posts: 21

Date of registration
: Sep 6th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

  • Send private message

553

Wednesday, September 17th 2014, 4:14pm

What was your setup with the M4? Just asking, because for me it seem like the M4/M16 are those kind of guns which are good with just about anything. In fact, I often run Underslung rail w/ M26 on my M16 to help with the 'poor' CQC performance :/

  • Kobra (personal preference)
  • GLS (makes the already great hip-fire amazing)
  • Flash Hider (didn't like how HB felt with burst fire and FH is awesome anyway)
  • AFG (high FSM/TSM that triggers every burst --> no-brainer)

Posts: 27

Date of registration
: Feb 17th 2014

Platform: PS4

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

554

Thursday, September 18th 2014, 8:41pm

The burst guns just have so many issues for me that they are jsut not enjoyable. I guess there are people out there where it does not jam in every second or third burst, but for me half the time I can not shoot when I want to. Added to that. despite being burst weapons their FSM is not even considerably low, but one of the highest in the Carbine class. That being said, recoil is not really low either, but average at best.
So in combination you have a weapon that should fire at 800 rounds per minute, but does not most of the time due to jamming, you have to work around a rather highish recoil with every burst, while wielding higher recoil than lower RPM and more accurate carbines.



It is I never doubted the fact that it is not caused by not timing the click. However I would not call it bad clicking at all. It is detrimental to the instincts of any player, though and the fact that while pulling the trigger again at the right time is intuitive, clicking the mouse is not. Naturally in the typical jamming situations, i.e. CQB and panic reactions it is even harder to control.

Furthermore there is the difference between bursting a full-auto weapon and using a burst weapon, the former does not jam, even in the tightest situations, because you can control your burst lengths yourself and that is again, intuitive. At longer ranges jamming obviously is not a problem, yet burst weapons still suffer there from the higher overall recoil.

I do not know how mice have any influence on this, but if so, gear and equipment should never have that of an impact on gameplay. It should be balanced around standard issue material. And of course if a large part of the playerbase have a problem with burstmodes, than it is worth looking into, otherwise the weapon is no alternative.

Btw, kelwin, coming up here with that tone does not leave a good impression.

Edit: Thx for the vid. I do have decent bursts as well, especially when the ranges are longer and I have the time to let it settle. Still perfect bursts at shorter ranges are rather rare. As soon as one gets under pressure, and I guess this is the same with most players, it can get really ugly. Fact is realizing that you do have time, when you think you do not, is essential but largely wishful thinking. And to come on topic again, most people at any situation would be better off with a more accurate lowwer ROF carbine, or bursting a higher ROF carbine and being close to equally accurate.
@Cobalt Rose
The FSM is no issue for me really, but the fact that it is even higher or at least not lower for burst only weapons is crazy. To me it is just not balanced around real gameplay situations and player behaviour.


I found the M16A4 to be a viable option at medium to long-ish ranges where you are behind cover, standing still and shooting at people. However, once you get into a panic situation where you encounter one or multiple enemies up close you will lose that fight most of the time. It's just weird having a 3-shot burstfire weapon. Often in those CQB situations I end up putting like one burst in ech enemy leaving them with like 20 or less health and then being shot by those enemies. With a full auto weapon I could have killed every one of them by dosing the burst lenght for each enemy and making sure every burst is lethal - this process in much quicker than putting two 3-shot bursts into each enemy. Sure the M16A4 and the M4 are iconic weapons and they look cool but they are not versatile at all. They kind of feel like DMR's where each bullet is split into a 3 shot burst.

I'd rather run a DMR or the CS5 as an aggressive recon than pick a burst fire weapon. The only chance those guns would become a viable alternative is if DICE upped their demage model, maybe to the one of the SCAR-H / BULLDOG. That would be a one-burst-kill up close and a two burst kill at a further distance. I think this benefit would make up for the jamming and the wonkieness of those guns.


VincentNZ, this is spot on mate and what i've been trying to get across in various other threads regarding M4/M16A4 for some time. AirHornet also sums up my feelings about the M4/M16A4 perfectly, which brings me onto another minor negative with the burst fire only weapons and that's ammo usage/conservation.

Full auto weapons get the opportunity to make every bullet count, either through tap fire or controlled bursts that the user decides on. The burst fire weapons limit you to a max 10 trigger pulls in each magazine throwing out 3 bullets in each 'shot'. This means in the average battle there are numerous 'wasted bullets' either because your enemy takes three/four etc bursts to kill (allowing for cover, leading your target, not all body/heads shots etc) using 09-12 bullets or finishing off a wounded enemy that only needs one bullet but you expend three.

I know there are users here that will say "will why don't you just switch to single fire?", well yes of course you could but when opportunistic shots arise that's not always practical. This has lead me to run the 'offensive' field upgrade with its ammo bonus to compensate.

That all said, I do love my M16A4, just feel the burst only weapons could do with a little more going for them than their current status.


555

Thursday, September 18th 2014, 10:32pm

Is there a way to make acw r work at longer ranges? I've tried compensator but that horizontal recoil is still quite extreme past a few metres.

NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(10,320)

Posts: 7,285

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

556

Thursday, September 18th 2014, 10:42pm

Is there a way to make acw r work at longer ranges? I've tried compensator but that horizontal recoil is still quite extreme past a few metres.


ACW-R is a carbine with stats geared towards CQB. You shouldn't be trying to go for long range battles with it.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Posts: 185

Date of registration
: Aug 22nd 2014

Platform: PC

Location: Germany

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 4

  • Send private message

557

Thursday, September 18th 2014, 10:49pm

Is there a way to make acw r work at longer ranges? I've tried compensator but that horizontal recoil is still quite extreme past a few metres.
Well, for long-range you're better off with a G36C or AK5.

C0llis

Up and down. Bounce all around

(3,334)

Posts: 3,100

Date of registration
: Apr 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

558

Thursday, September 18th 2014, 10:51pm

That said, comp + afg is a great setup on the ACW-R and with practice and bursting you can make it work at extended ranges (I'd say ~50 meters). But it is by no means a long range gun and a DMR or long range carbine, like the AK5C or the G36C, would be better for longer ranges (although "long range carbine" is somewhat of an oxymoron).

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

Posts: 185

Date of registration
: Aug 22nd 2014

Platform: PC

Location: Germany

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 4

  • Send private message

559

Thursday, September 18th 2014, 10:53pm

The only carbine that is viable at longer ranges is the ACE52 due to its higher demage output at range.

NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(10,320)

Posts: 7,285

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

560

Thursday, September 18th 2014, 11:29pm

The only carbine that is viable at longer ranges is the ACE52 due to its higher demage output at range.


@Rezal

TYPE-95B-1 is good at longer range because of its accuracy. G36C is also a very strong choice for longer range because of its low horizontal recoil. It doesn't matter how strong your shots are if it can't hit shit.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.