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Back from the Grave


  • "youngGod16" started this thread

Posts: 91

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: Sep 3rd 2016

Platform: PS4


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Wednesday, May 10th 2017, 3:22am

stubby&compensator vs stubby&heavybarrel

bring out the HITRATER! jk my verdict - hb wins on all except famas [even with cz3a1(having enough trouble with the spread increase while hipfiring? run stubby+hbar (precise recoil management isn't necessary, and the moving spread with hbar is great). Since with 1000rpm "cz" you often exceed 7 shots/burst, never run comp or brake, precise recoil control is irrelevantójust so long as it's more or less on the enemy. barrel+potato for >7 shot bursting, barrel+ergo for smaller bursts and more movement.]
aek - both setups are equally as good unless you fire in 5-6 rd burst in which the hb is better. microburst and versus headglitcher comp better?
f2000 - hb is better but only a by little but, calculating human error and comp is clearly better, (does the same apply to aek, perfect recoil control hb is ALWAYS better but chances are your not perfect, unless your SKANIC - "You are correct in that with only a stubby the AEK is not very good at range, however as soon as you add the Heavy Barrel to the AEK it becomes useable for up to 65 meters where i have made serveral times a sucessful 10 round burst and killed"."I tried this out yesterday played only with m416 heavy barrel and stubby, Result: I can kill an AEK quicker than they can me , Headshot master for some reason? I mostly aim at upper chest. I can shoot in long burst (10 rounds) and kill a target from 40 meters or more. I have really fast reload. i had a 25 killstreak with it defending the D flag on Locker"."I could easily kill people who are almost 100 meters away from Balcony on Charlie to the Outer ring far. and all this on 30hz server".
mtar - hb or compensator ?
sg553 - comp is better, but if aek is better with hb having all that recoil and spread, why not hb here as well?

hitrate thingy i believe say hb. is always just a little bit better with perfect control (spread more important then Hrecoil), but nobodys perfect!

at what gun/rof is hb gonna be better. i would say its never better on any gun firing faster then 700 rpm because added recoil/fsm. or is it only better in 5-6 rd burst with any gun (except famas)
i also believe the ergo is viable on any gun shooting 770 rpm and lower [exception, scar (840rpm) which can use ANY attachment nicely].

scar h :

AUG A3 | AR160 | SCAR-H. Of thsee, SCAR-H trades ease-of-use (worse V-Recoil and Velocity) but hits like a truck, with long-range tap-firing potential rivalling DMRs.

HBar + Ergo on all 3, but if finding the SCAR-H hard to manage, MB + Ergo for that one is okay, just don't expect to fight DMRs at range then.

The Brake has always made killing headglitchers easy, but the Heavy barrel enables me to put longer bursts down, and while I'm fairly used to the recoil, I still feel like 2-round bursts against headglitchers is more productive then heavybarrel shooting.
Ergo grip is generally better for most situations, as you *should* be moving while shooting

so i ask...... which setup is ultimately better, scar h with ergo/hb, or ergo/MB?
im currently running scar with stubby only, but im think of adding hb, will the added recoil make it less effective?

...boy, PDWs, Carbines (both Bullpup and Standard) and to a lesser extent Bullpup ARs, REALLY NEED the HBar. It is very powerful, as it gives you:better starting Spread to extend your guaranteed hit range by 2x,
For DMRs, Naked + Naked / Bipod, HBar + Naked / Bipod, or MB + Ergo with the SVD-12 and ACE 53.Run HBar for Carbines and PDWs. Put NoGrip on PDWs, while you can transition from Stubby for high-RPM Carbines down to Ergo for low-RPM Carbines.PDWs can additionally run Supp + Naked if you know you can stay within 50m. Your hipfire is basically not harmed at all.Similar advice for ARs as pertains to Carbines, except that HBar is not as crucial, so MB + Ergo serves as a good alternative to HBar + NoGrip or HBar + Stubby.Special case is the AN-94, which seems to recover from all SIPS no matter what you put on it, thanks to its forced firing rate limiter. Run whatever you want, but HBar + Ergo is statistically the best.The Support weapons looked at here, although all are derivatives to ARs, still really need the Ergo. HBar + Ergo for them.Put the MB on the SR338; I really don't see why not.

Quick Conclusions
AFG only improves Useability, and is probably not weighed enough here. For center-mass shooting (ie not exclusively vs. headglitchers) and especially if burst-mode (thus FSM is moved out of the burst) is available, plus the SDec penalty it now has, then I don't see the point. If you see in the Attachment Aggregate chart, in the Grip section that all the bars are fairly close, though, and if you need it, then feel free.
Comp is on a similar place. H-Recoil is already included into Hitrater, but maybe for these short burst lengths the base Spread is king (thus HBar coming out on top for everyone except for DMRs). Plus, then Comp's hefty SIPS penalty then make it wait forever to be able to recover and thus fire again. Maybe it's just not suited for this style of shooting.
To further the previous point, you can feel free to skip over the HBar and look at NoBar vs. MB vs. Comp, and if those bars are fairly close to each other, then you can run any of them based on your needs.
Assault Rifles are... very good at killing infantry in typical BF4 engagement ranges. Who'd have thunk it? :P Thus, Assault players should use ARs in pretty much all cases I can imagine: even in Hipfire, Bulldog beats a lot of Carbines.
A VERY GENERAL attachment guideline for ARs is: if 700RPM or less, run HBar + Ergo; if more than 700RPM, consider NoBar + Stubby.
PDWs absolutely shred people up close, while a few actually hold their own in "Carbine" ranges such as AS VAL, Groza-4 and UMP-45. Engineers should pick these 3 ahead of any of the "all-kits."
PDWs are also the best candidate to run Supp, as they don't lose ANY hitrate in the Hipfire ranges I looked at.
I will admit that box-fed LMGs are not looked at favourably in this study: why would you hip-fire + "micro-burst" a gun that has 200 rounds? This is done to keep things fair, though, by subjecting all weapons with the same regimen. The standout in this class, though, is the RPK(-47), which is absolutely excellent at everything.
If LMGs are shafted on the short-range, then DMRs get it worse on the long-range, as 80m in this study is nowhere far enough for them to stretch their legs. Unfortunately though Miffyli's research on median killing ranges in BF4 matches my personal experience, and even as an exclusive DMR user I have no issues with them placed where they are.
Expanding on the DMR front a little, since it is a subject I'm most familiar with: NoBar / Supp + NoGrip (so you might as well run a Bipod) is an excellent way to run them. The exceptions are the SVD-12 and ACE 53 SV, both seemed to not matter no matter the attachments in most tickrates. This is the effect that their lower-than-normal SIPS values + same 260RPM give them.
Finally, it is a bit of an annoyance that the recommended attachments and click-rates change as you move from tickrate to tickrate, server to server. I have experienced this myself, as I server-hop the same gun with the same set up shoots differently. I now run Supp + NoGrip in my M39 EMR and it seems the most consistent (and the Shooting Mechanics calculations bear that out), but hopefully the next BF will decide on a tickrate that everyone (from players to hosting services) will be happy with, and be able to stick to it in public ranked games.

does this still apply ?

FAMAS, I don't know if the second bullet is shot before or after the application of first-shot V recoil to the aimpoint (both happen in the same frame). Outside of this, FAMAS works as it should :) ...alternating between 2 shots fired at 1800 rpm and then 3-4 shots at 900 rpm.

The table shows for example that 600 rpm guns spit out the first 2 bullets exactly as fast as the 900 rpm AEK.

So, I'm pretty dumb with regards with to this, but is this accurately understood:

- Weapons at 900+ RPM get a bonus in that they fire the first two shots with no recoil (or only one count of recoil)

- Weapons at slower RPM (say, <700 RPM) get a bonus in that they actually fire the first few rounds at around 900 RPM

famas(<10m>), bulldog(10-15m), scar (15m+)
aek over ace23,m416,l85a2 in 10m or less.
acr over sg553 in 10m or less, although if controlled perfectly acr win out to 35m.
scar wins over ace 23, m416, l85a2 all ranges
scar wins over famas all ranges because of easier recoil meaning more shots hit
g18 is equal to 800 rpm primary in CQB
ars and carbines hipfire effective to 5m, pdws 20m.
l85 can beat adsing aek out to 6m hipfire.
aek can be use effectively to 60m
F2000 beats aek at 25m or more
at ranges 30-40m or more, you want to stand still while firing?

uts 15 and saiga 12 have tightest cone of fires.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "youngGod16" (May 16th 2017, 12:50pm)