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Zer0Cod3x

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11

Thursday, October 6th 2016, 1:04am

Ah but don't forget two things about the JS2:-
  1. Bullpup stats! The MPX may be more accurate (albeit not by much at all) when stationary but you can use the JS2 a lot more effectively when on the move doing Engineering tings.
  2. Greater ranged stats! It's damage drop off is a lot higher, muzzle velocity is higher, and max distance is higher; so you'll make up the minor loss in accuracy from differing recoil with that and it's higher fire rate.


Still prefer the A-91 to both though :)

Bullpup stats don't really affect PDWs as much as other weapon classes, as all PDWs are great whilst moving. Also, the damage dropoff doesn't mean much, as even though the JS2's dropoff range is longer, the MPX starts with a higher damage, which ultimately nets them both a 5HK out to 28.3 m. The muzzle velocity is also negligibly higher on the JS2, and max distance is irrelevant.

The A-91 is alright if you want a bullpup specifically, otherwise, use the SG553.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


NoctyrneSAGA

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12

Thursday, October 6th 2016, 1:44am

MPX Moving Spread going forward: 0.948 = (1.0*0.67) + ((1.5-(1.0*0.67))*0.67*0.5)

JS2 Moving Spread going forward: 0.670 = (1.0*0.67*0.75) + ((1.5-(1.0*0.67*0.75))*0.67*0.5*0.5)

MPX = 41% more spread than JS2
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Oct 6th 2016, 1:50am)


Zer0Cod3x

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13

Thursday, October 6th 2016, 2:06am

something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


NoctyrneSAGA

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14

Thursday, October 6th 2016, 2:36am

What indeed. Why are you lnking a moving ADS Spread thread?

Let me clarify:

MPX Hipfire Moving Spread going forward: 0.948 = (1.0 base spread * 0.67 base Laser) + ((1.5 moving spread - (1.0 base spread * 0.67 base Laser)) * 0.67 moving Laser * 0.5 moving Ergo)

JS2 Hipfire Moving Spread going forward: 0.670 = (1.0 base spread * 0.67 base Laser * 0.75 base PDW Bullpup) + ((1.5 moving spread - (1.0 base spread * 0.67 base Laser * 0.75 base PDW Bullpup)) * 0.67 moving Laser * 0.5 moving Ergo * 0.5 moving PDW Bullpup)

Because good hipfire is apparently not worth mentioning.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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15

Thursday, October 6th 2016, 1:13pm

Thanks for the great feedback everyone. I always forget the MPX exists for some reason, and as already mentioned, the VAL's low mag size limits the number of targets it can engage. I think a lot of people on console seem to have drifted towards the P90. I'm seeing a lot of them recently too.

marbleduck

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16

Thursday, October 6th 2016, 4:06pm

Because the MPX and AS-VAL exist.


Snarky comment? Snarky answer! 8o
MPX has the accuracy of rocks, and the AS-VAL is really really good at killing one person up to mid range and then you'd better like your side arm :D


JS2 shits on the MPX IMO. Mostly just because its spread properties. Sure, you can 2HSK with the MPX but only within like 8m. I think the better sdec/sips on the JS2 makes it more worthwhile than the MPX.

VAL is fine for super accurate play. I would use it if you could take off that shitty suppressor and give it a decent MV.

P90 is probably more useful overall than either since it's still a 5 BTK in CQ, and can run the heavy barrel because 50rnds ololol

Platoon Marble Duck

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You started playing bf3 and never touched bfc1/2. Please do yourself a favor and shutdown your generic cod channel down"

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"Marbleduck you don't know shit lol levelcap knows more than you do you cant talk about how someone puts up garbage when you do yourself your a newcomer to YouTube acting like you know shit step up in the food chain first then you have the right to talk otherwise your just a fish trying to compete with sharks"

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"please talk like a normal person and not like a professional"

VincentNZ

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Thursday, October 6th 2016, 4:24pm

The A-91 was my go-to carbine in BF3, because it handled similar to my beloved F2000, and it has the awesome look on his side.

It was therefore among the first carbines I played in BF4 and while it behaved very differently from BF3 it proved very accurate and I had a blast. Still, with the PDWs now being on par as a class, there is no need to use the carbines over them. If you want an agressive recon though the A-91 is a solid choice, if you like bullpups and moving.

youngGod16

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18

Tuesday, October 11th 2016, 11:41pm

A91

Quoted

A91 is with out a doubt one of the best carbines. But... I recommend you use the sg553. Sg553>any other carbine. If you like the acr stick with it. Mabey mtar? With the guns I just mentioned, there's no reason to use the a91. Nuff said. ;)

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19

Wednesday, October 12th 2016, 9:27am

@marble

most prefer MPX over JS2 because of its reload speed. Just a lot easier to play. The even horizontal recoil is easier to use too.

Other than that. A-91 just no. Can somebody explain to me why I feel like Spray-n-Pray with this gun is the most effective way to play ? I can forget targets at distance, they are easier to hit with the SG553 and if I play CQB I am better off with the Groza-1. The A-91 lacks to be the middle of the road and simultaneously gets squished from guns, which are better in CQB and Range.
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Thursday, October 13th 2016, 4:38pm

@marble

most prefer MPX over JS2 because of its reload speed. Just a lot easier to play. The even horizontal recoil is easier to use too.

Other than that. A-91 just no. Can somebody explain to me why I feel like Spray-n-Pray with this gun is the most effective way to play ? I can forget targets at distance, they are easier to hit with the SG553 and if I play CQB I am better off with the Groza-1. The A-91 lacks to be the middle of the road and simultaneously gets squished from guns, which are better in CQB and Range.


The A-91 has sexy irons? Dammit so does the SG553 though.

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