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  • "Sniper" started this thread

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Sunday, October 2nd 2016, 10:32am

Is the a-91 any good?

In my experience i can say that its hip-fire is great but it seems that i have massive accuracy problems. I checked the Symthic stats and its moving accuracy is grabage. In your guys's opinions is it still worth using? I main the acw-r for carbines and i have a up close fighting style and like to close the gap with cover. Thank you for all of your opinions :)

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sniper12371

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Tuesday, October 4th 2016, 7:32pm

I checked the Symthic stats and its moving accuracy is grabage.

The weapon charts don't tell the full picture when it comes to moving spread - see this thread for the actual values.

Quoted from "WoopsyYaya"

40 CARBINES
[...]
48 Strafing
51 E 0,394
[...]
60 Bullpup 75% Strafiing
63 E 0,435
(E = Ergo Grip)

As you can see, for example, the A-91's strafing ADS spread with Ergo (0.435) is only twice that of Assault Rifles' stationary ADS spread (0.2). It's also only 10% worse than an ACW-R used the same way (0.394). Combined with the A-91's lower recoil, you shouldn't have that bad accuracy problems if you treat it similar to ACW-R.

Going back to the weapon charts, the biggest drawback of the A-91 compared to ACW-R is the much longer reload time. I personally prefer the MTAR for this reason, but it's not objectively better than the A-91.
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ViperFTW

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Tuesday, October 4th 2016, 7:39pm

Unless a lot changed and they totally fucked it up since I last played, the A-91 is really great. 800 rpm and bullpup config means it's good on close ranged maps, but it's recoil and spread isn't all that bad so you can still burst it out to mid/long range if need be. I think it's still my third most used weapon in BF4 (after the PKP and the M60, of course).
Give it a try :)

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Wednesday, October 5th 2016, 10:28am

A91 is and has been a solid choice since BF3, IMO.

But I think it depends on your playstyle. If you're not a fan of close range stuff, then I'd ignore it.

But if you like close quarters, or have a "hit and run" stealth-based playstyle, it's pretty good!

I do think the MTAR does everything the A91 does, only better. But either way- very good choices.

I'd suggest running Stubby + Supressor + Target Detector, and make sure your squad mates run Supressor too...otherwise you'll probably get shredded due to minimap + assault rifle, IMO.

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Wednesday, October 5th 2016, 10:50am

Another similar weapon that never sees the light of day is the JS2. I'm always amazed at how many engineers and even assaults I see running the Mtar and acw, but barely any running the JS2. Considering its a similar high rof weapon and it has amazing up close potential with great hipfire, it should be popular. I see no statistical reason for this.

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Wednesday, October 5th 2016, 2:18pm

Another similar weapon that never sees the light of day is the JS2. I'm always amazed at how many engineers and even assaults I see running the Mtar and acw, but barely any running the JS2. Considering its a similar high rof weapon and it has amazing up close potential with great hipfire, it should be popular. I see no statistical reason for this.

Because the MPX and AS-VAL exist.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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Wednesday, October 5th 2016, 7:34pm

Because the MPX and AS-VAL exist.


Snarky comment? Snarky answer! 8o
MPX has the accuracy of rocks, and the AS-VAL is really really good at killing one person up to mid range and then you'd better like your side arm :D

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Wednesday, October 5th 2016, 9:44pm

I do think the MTAR does everything the A91 does, only better. But either way- very good choices.

Speaking of that, I had a dream last night of finally unlocking the MTAR-21 in "Battlefield 3". I am being completely serious here.

As each day progresses, it feels more and more like I will never be able to get that one kill with the EOD bot.

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Wednesday, October 5th 2016, 11:56pm

Snarky comment? Snarky answer! 8o

Maybe it was slightly snarky :D

But to explain: the MPX has less FSM/vertical recoil, much less total horizontal recoil, lower SIPS and higher SDEC, and fires at the exact same RoF for the first 8 bullets at 30 Hz/first 5 at 60 Hz, enough to kill in CQB both times. There's really no reason to use the JS2 over the MPX.

Even if you don't want to use the MPX, you can use the AS-VAL. The VAL has significantly less horizontal recoil and spread, and does more damage than the JS2 in both extreme CQB and at further distances. But as you noted, the only drawback is the 21 round mag size.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


ViperFTW

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Thursday, October 6th 2016, 12:07am

Snarky comment? Snarky answer! 8o

Maybe it was slightly snarky :D

But to explain: the MPX has less FSM/vertical recoil, much less total horizontal recoil, lower SIPS and higher SDEC, and fires at the exact same RoF for the first 8 bullets at 30 Hz/first 5 at 60 Hz, enough to kill in CQB both times. There's really no reason to use the JS2 over the MPX.


Ah but don't forget two things about the JS2:-
  1. Bullpup stats! The MPX may be more accurate (albeit not by much at all) when stationary but you can use the JS2 a lot more effectively when on the move doing Engineering tings.
  2. Greater ranged stats! It's damage drop off is a lot higher, muzzle velocity is higher, and max distance is higher; so you'll make up the minor loss in accuracy from differing recoil with that and it's higher fire rate.


Still prefer the A-91 to both though :)

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