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  • "gls2220" started this thread

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Saturday, September 3rd 2016, 3:59am

What is the math for DPS &TTK?

I'm looking at the time to kill charts and comparing the AS Val to the Famas. By my calculation, the Famas has a slightly higher DPS but on the chart it shows the AS Val time to kill as 203 (milliseconds?) at 1m vs. the Famas at 242.

Anyway, I'm wondering if someone can show me the math. I'd like to know the proper way to compute both DPS and TTK. And just to be clear, I'm not a mathematician. I do like metrics though and I find this stuff pretty interesting.

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Saturday, September 3rd 2016, 5:21am

DPS is simply damage per second. It ignores whether or not the target is actually dead though. 10000 DPS is hardly different from 1000 DPS if both kill the target in 0.1s.

TTK is a measurement of the time needed to kill a target.

Basic idea is to count the number of intervals between bullets and add muzzle velocity.

((60/RoF) * BTK) + (distance/velocity)

(60/RoF) = interval

BTK = number of intervals before target dies

distance/velocity = travel time
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Saturday, September 3rd 2016, 7:25am

With time to kill, the first bullet is seen as instantaneous, as in it starts the figurative "kill time clock." So, only the bullet velocity is figured in for the first shot, which is pretty redundant when we're talking about a single meter.

Example.

With the AS Val, it kills with four shots at very close ranges, and it fires 900 rounds per minute (or 15 shots per second). Since that first shot starts the clock, you really only count the following shots. As such, 3 divided by 15 is 0.2. The extra 0.003 seconds comes from the bullet velocity at a single meter.

  • "gls2220" started this thread

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Saturday, September 3rd 2016, 11:26pm

Thank you for the replies. What is the reasoning to start the clock with the impact of the first bullet? Given their respective muzzle velocities (Famas 630 vs AS Val 300), the Famas bullet will impact the target slightly more than twice as quickly as the bullet from the AS VAL. If I'm thinking about this correctly, the Famas will actually land two bullets on the target before the first round from the AS VAL hits. Is that correct?

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Sunday, September 4th 2016, 12:49am

It's a measure of how long it takes to kill someone.

It starts on the first hit because that's when you start damaging them. Then we are interested in how much time it takes to kill them.
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Sunday, September 4th 2016, 1:59am

Noctyrne, it disturbs me greatly that you have not discussed the fact that these numbers do not take into account whether you are actually hitting your target. Sure, the gun will be outputting that much DPS, but whether that damage lands on target is an ENTIRELY different story. The Famas and VAL will never achieve those TTK values unless you are using nospread norecoil hacks. While the numbers shown for "DPS" on Symthic may suggest that higher RoF is always better, when you factor in whether you're actually hitting your target, the numbers are entirely different

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Sunday, September 4th 2016, 3:51am

He is asking for the math used in the charts and I explained it.

Whether or not said math is the full picture of lethality is irrelevant to OP's question.
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Sunday, September 4th 2016, 9:05am

This might get slightly off-topic, but I always wondered why here, so many people put their emphasis on TTK, where is the significance? Just jesterday Rezal, I believe, remarked that the Cei-Rigotti had the best ttk in 30m or so, and I sat there wondering what this argument is all about. What good is the theory if oneself can not nearly achieve that?

Then I dug up my stats with that weapon, checked the numbers here, and reflected my poor experience and performance with that weapon and found for myself that it really does not work out for me. Really these three things define the weapons for me and the subjective personal performance is the most important too. So considering that I always wanted to know if you can do something else with the TTK stat, is it important for the game design itself, or does it even have an impact on the battlefield experience that I can not think of?

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Sunday, September 4th 2016, 9:19am

The TTKs of the website have been accepted as best case theoretical scenarios.

They are only achievable for players that have absolute best performance and it is for these scenarios that games should be balanced around.

If a player is suboptimal and not able to push a weapon to its limit, that doesn't give any valid indication for how good said weapon can actually be.

It is in this instance where AIs would dominate. They are capable of frame-perfect, optimized shooting patterns as long as they are programmed to do so. Very quickly you should be able to identify if a weapon is OP since an AI would be using it and coming out on top outside of its intended ranges. Execution limitations do not really exist for a computerized player so they are perfect for this sort of analysis. You don't have to worry about missed shots from bad aim or bad clickrates. It is perfect shooting that achieves the absolute best a weapon can manage. It's an idea I had for an "AI as Game Designer" project for one of my university courses.

And if these AIs standing in for extremely high-level players find an imbalance, you sure as hell can bet that once the human players catch up, they will similarly exploit that point unless it has been fixed.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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Sunday, September 4th 2016, 9:42am

Yeah I thought about the AI as well, but quickly disregarded that for gameplay in BF. I always wondered though how the AI in BF3 and in 4's singleplayer got calculated, though. If they even used the weapon stats or if it is just programmed to deal x damage to you per second.

Then I wondered about competitive players or macro users or even players using no-recoil hacks. I remembered a person having 46% accuracy with the M16 in BF3, while the average players ranged from 15-25% I guess. Still I believe that most inaccuracies come from overshooting and deliberately taking shots that have a small hitchance, which said player did not do. That brings everyone into higher numbers, I would say 30% actual hitrate for me, maybe more. Still it is hard to calculate with "maybe"-numbers.

BF3 and BF4 have a number of mechanics though that make you inaccurate though, recoil, bullet velocity and spread most commonly and these can not be totally evaded, it is still a human after all. The FAMAS had that low TTK as an example, and everybody can relate to that in Locker, but on Altai Range, I can not see how anyone would come even close to that.
So yeah while it is probably used best as a base stat in developing weapons, I can not see it being used in other ways than a reference if we are talking about gameplay.

Your answer is very much appreciated, I did not really consider that this is likely how Devs start off when designing a weapon.