Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

  • "xFLOPSHOOTERx" started this thread

Posts: 28

Date of registration
: Aug 29th 2012

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Texas

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

1

Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 6:35pm

are there any attachments that affect spread increase/decrease in a POSITIVE way?

i think i have a grasp of how the flash suppressor and various grips affect spread in a negative way by making the gun spread recover more slowly.

are there any attachments which affect SIPS/SDPS in a positive way, either directly or indirectly?

by indirectly, what i mean is based on what the starting values are before you begin shooting the gun, would those starting values assigned by any particular attachment come out in a positive way when you STOP shooting the gun.

i came here with this question because i can usually get an informed, intelligent response from people who are WAY smarter than me :thumbsup:

Posts: 7,789

Date of registration
: Feb 25th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: italy

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

2

Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 6:44pm

heavy barrel ergo grip and stubby grip i guess.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif




Posts: 132

Date of registration
: Oct 6th 2014

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 2

  • Send private message

3

Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 7:37pm

Spread decrease really only nerfs consecutive 2-3 round bursts of high RPM (and damage) weapons at extreme range. Which they shouldn't be doing anyway. Unless you've been using burst FAMAS you won't notice a difference (QBU88 spammers like me also noticed a difference). Except if you somehow have 90% accuracy and magdumping for you is firing more than six bullets to kill someone.

If you want a gun with great spread decrease then use SAR21, rpk12, u100, p2000, or an94. Bullpups would be good choices as well. SAR-21 is both.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "cod" (Jul 2nd 2015, 7:51pm)


NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(9,529)

Posts: 6,957

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

4

Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 7:39pm

Hbar and Stubby helps SIPS.


Letting the enemy Suppress you helps SDEC but it'll hurt SIPS.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Posts: 1,379

Date of registration
: Jun 23rd 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Germany, Bavaria

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 11

  • Send private message

5

Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 7:59pm

The SDPS reductions were made with the mindset that a grip will be equipped by default, so the "base - 33%" stats are the actual baseline. By that logic it stands to reason that "no attachment", "bipod" and "underslung rail" are underbarrel attachments that effectively increase SDPS by 50% compared to "baseline with grip".

SIPS can be reduced with HBAR and stubby.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Jul 2nd 2015, 8:08pm) with the following reason: typo


Posts: 4,259

Date of registration
: Apr 6th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: From the heart of Europe.

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

  • Send private message

6

Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 8:02pm

Bipod.
[Aristocrat's Shoes]
TLDR -
Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"

Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

(1,327)

Posts: 1,530

Date of registration
: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

Reputation modifier: 12

  • Send private message

7

Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 9:38pm

would those starting values assigned by any particular attachment come out in a positive way when you STOP shooting the gun.

Well, I built a whole formula around this. It's the one I used in your M4 thread.

But to answer your question, HB, stubby, UGL and bipod. And of course nothing.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


  • "xFLOPSHOOTERx" started this thread

Posts: 28

Date of registration
: Aug 29th 2012

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Texas

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

8

Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 11:17pm

would those starting values assigned by any particular attachment come out in a positive way when you STOP shooting the gun.

Well, I built a whole formula around this. It's the one I used in your M4 thread.

But to answer your question, HB, stubby, UGL and bipod. And of course nothing.


so if i understand the stubby grip correctly (layman's math), it gives a 20% bonus to SIPS, but then turns around and gives a 33% penalty to SDPS. which means it's an overall negative (except for the max spread bonus, which doesn't come in to play unless you're mag dumping, which i don't do)

C0llis

Up and down. Bounce all around

(3,334)

Posts: 3,100

Date of registration
: Apr 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

9

Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 11:21pm

No, you cannot directly compare "+ 20 % SIPS" to "-33 % SDPS" and conclude that stubby is bad. 1 % better SIPS is not equal to 1 % better SDPS, and vice versa. Stubby makes bullets within a burst more accurate, but in return you need to pause longer between bursts. Stubby is the best attachment for long bursts and magdumping, even after the SDPS change.

If SDPS is a problem for you you should try longer pauses, using no grip, or shorter bursts (less spread that needs to be bled off).

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

Posts: 853

Date of registration
: Dec 8th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 12

  • Send private message

10

Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 11:58pm

Here are the number of frames to return to base Spread for the ACE 23 Assault Rifle, 6 rounds burst, ranked from fastest to slowest:

  1. HBar + Naked | 1.321428571
  2. Naked + Naked | 1.428571429
  3. HBar + Stubby | 1.601731602
  4. MB + Naked | 1.607142857
  5. Naked + Stubby | 1.731601732
  6. Comp + Naked | 1.857142857
  7. MB + Stubby | 1.948051948
  8. HBar + AFG | 2.002164502 / HBar + Ergo | 2.002164502
  9. Naked + AFG | 2.164502165 / Naked + Ergo | 2.164502165
  10. Comp + Stubby | 2.251082251
  11. MB + AFG | 2.435064935 / MB + Ergo | 2.435064935
  12. Comp + AFG | 2.813852814 / Comp + Ergo | 2.813852814


For the same length of firing, you can either do Naked Underbarrel to recover SIPS faster. Or, you can run Stubby / Potato Grip alongside Heavy Barrel, both of which decreases SIPS so you have less to recover from. That will also have the added advantage of making your damage output within the burst to be higher, so maybe you won't have to shoot for as long to secure the kill.

As you can see from the above ranking, HBar + Stubby is not far off from Naked + Naked, just 12% slower, while it outputs 16% more damage within the burst. I'd run HBar + Stubby.