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  • "xFLOPSHOOTERx" started this thread

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Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 6:35pm

are there any attachments that affect spread increase/decrease in a POSITIVE way?

i think i have a grasp of how the flash suppressor and various grips affect spread in a negative way by making the gun spread recover more slowly.

are there any attachments which affect SIPS/SDPS in a positive way, either directly or indirectly?

by indirectly, what i mean is based on what the starting values are before you begin shooting the gun, would those starting values assigned by any particular attachment come out in a positive way when you STOP shooting the gun.

i came here with this question because i can usually get an informed, intelligent response from people who are WAY smarter than me :thumbsup:

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Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 6:44pm

heavy barrel ergo grip and stubby grip i guess.
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Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 7:37pm

Spread decrease really only nerfs consecutive 2-3 round bursts of high RPM (and damage) weapons at extreme range. Which they shouldn't be doing anyway. Unless you've been using burst FAMAS you won't notice a difference (QBU88 spammers like me also noticed a difference). Except if you somehow have 90% accuracy and magdumping for you is firing more than six bullets to kill someone.

If you want a gun with great spread decrease then use SAR21, rpk12, u100, p2000, or an94. Bullpups would be good choices as well. SAR-21 is both.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "cod" (Jul 2nd 2015, 7:51pm)


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Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 7:39pm

Hbar and Stubby helps SIPS.

Letting the enemy Suppress you helps SDEC but it'll hurt SIPS.
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Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 7:59pm

The SDPS reductions were made with the mindset that a grip will be equipped by default, so the "base - 33%" stats are the actual baseline. By that logic it stands to reason that "no attachment", "bipod" and "underslung rail" are underbarrel attachments that effectively increase SDPS by 50% compared to "baseline with grip".

SIPS can be reduced with HBAR and stubby.
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I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Jul 2nd 2015, 8:08pm) with the following reason: typo

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Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 8:02pm

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Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 9:38pm

would those starting values assigned by any particular attachment come out in a positive way when you STOP shooting the gun.

Well, I built a whole formula around this. It's the one I used in your M4 thread.

But to answer your question, HB, stubby, UGL and bipod. And of course nothing.
something something Model 8 bestgun

How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:

Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

I... I...



In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.

  • "xFLOPSHOOTERx" started this thread

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Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 11:17pm

would those starting values assigned by any particular attachment come out in a positive way when you STOP shooting the gun.

Well, I built a whole formula around this. It's the one I used in your M4 thread.

But to answer your question, HB, stubby, UGL and bipod. And of course nothing.

so if i understand the stubby grip correctly (layman's math), it gives a 20% bonus to SIPS, but then turns around and gives a 33% penalty to SDPS. which means it's an overall negative (except for the max spread bonus, which doesn't come in to play unless you're mag dumping, which i don't do)


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Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 11:21pm

No, you cannot directly compare "+ 20 % SIPS" to "-33 % SDPS" and conclude that stubby is bad. 1 % better SIPS is not equal to 1 % better SDPS, and vice versa. Stubby makes bullets within a burst more accurate, but in return you need to pause longer between bursts. Stubby is the best attachment for long bursts and magdumping, even after the SDPS change.

If SDPS is a problem for you you should try longer pauses, using no grip, or shorter bursts (less spread that needs to be bled off).

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Thursday, July 2nd 2015, 11:58pm

Here are the number of frames to return to base Spread for the ACE 23 Assault Rifle, 6 rounds burst, ranked from fastest to slowest:

  1. HBar + Naked | 1.321428571
  2. Naked + Naked | 1.428571429
  3. HBar + Stubby | 1.601731602
  4. MB + Naked | 1.607142857
  5. Naked + Stubby | 1.731601732
  6. Comp + Naked | 1.857142857
  7. MB + Stubby | 1.948051948
  8. HBar + AFG | 2.002164502 / HBar + Ergo | 2.002164502
  9. Naked + AFG | 2.164502165 / Naked + Ergo | 2.164502165
  10. Comp + Stubby | 2.251082251
  11. MB + AFG | 2.435064935 / MB + Ergo | 2.435064935
  12. Comp + AFG | 2.813852814 / Comp + Ergo | 2.813852814

For the same length of firing, you can either do Naked Underbarrel to recover SIPS faster. Or, you can run Stubby / Potato Grip alongside Heavy Barrel, both of which decreases SIPS so you have less to recover from. That will also have the added advantage of making your damage output within the burst to be higher, so maybe you won't have to shoot for as long to secure the kill.

As you can see from the above ranking, HBar + Stubby is not far off from Naked + Naked, just 12% slower, while it outputs 16% more damage within the burst. I'd run HBar + Stubby.