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  • "ARE5R06" started this thread

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Friday, March 27th 2015, 3:19pm

Yes, Netcode. I still dont get it why it worked back then

Hi guys,

I am sorry that I bother you with the "Netcode" again. I have watched all the videos from Battle(non)sense and I couldnt find an answer to my question:

Why did BF3 with 10Hz update rate worked better than BF4 with 10Hz ?

I just dont get it. The CTE now links the update rate to the FPS, which can result in >60Hz update rate. So, BF4 has introduced the 30Hz Bubbles, which has resulted in a state, how it was during BF3 -> with 10Hz.

Packet Loss was definitely an issue in BF3 too (from there comes the Network Smoothing Factor), but why it worked there. I have played against French, Spain and Portugese in BF3 too and there havent been any issues. Now it is a nightmare if there are too many in the game.

But please come up with better answers, than "your connection is bad". If I put in the BF3 disk right now, I would get a better connectivity experience than in BF4 yet. Even if my connection would be bad, I can simply play 5 min BF3 and then 5 min BF4 and then point out that BF3 with 10Hz works better than BF4 as they both have been tested with the same system in a short enough time span to ensure, the same state of the network is given.

So, is the issue, the higher demanded performance from the servers? Would it help, if the next Battlefield title has lower server hardware specs?

Is it really a result of worse server location? I am in the heart of Europe and I have played with French, Spain and Portugese before, but why is it now an issue. (Ok, these damn japanese are annoying as f''', but they would have resultet in lags in BF3 too, so I cant give EA the fault here).

Or is it really just the combination of lag in sound, hit indicator and health-HUD, which still makes the game "feel" worse than it is? If that's the case, then fixing them would be priority no.1 far before introducing the 30Hz bubbles.

Do you guys know it?
still playin' Motorstorm

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Friday, March 27th 2015, 3:30pm

If I'd have to guess, people blame "netcode" instead or realising how BF3's average TTK was higher than BF4's pre-september patch TTK, hence why killtrades still happened in BF3.

I've found that, in most cases where "I got shot behind cover" I just failed to react fast enough.
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Friday, March 27th 2015, 3:34pm

i actually noticed that i died a lot of less times behind corner in bf4 launch than in bf3 endgame... it's all up to opinions, this thread imho is redundant.
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bf4
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Friday, March 27th 2015, 3:44pm

My take on it is this: Console bandwidth certification limits.

BF3: console version had netcode optimized for 24 people and 10 hz
PC: PC got netcode that scaled with that, with more damage priority.

BF4: console version was now optimized for 64 people sharing the same bandwidth cap and distribution levolution and networked water too.
PC: As a result the netcode probably has 50% more "shortcuts" in it, because microsoft and sony's demands have not changed over the years.

This is just speculation though, and why I wanted hardline to go with 32 players max on official servers, diversifying console (32) & pc (64 or 128 ) private server max playercounts.

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Friday, March 27th 2015, 4:26pm

No one knows.

Despite all the BattleNonSense videos on the topics, I don't think any of them explain the topic that well.

Back in the day, everyone just pointed at 30/10 and said that was the problem.

What people didn't point at were server specs (which although have been upgraded, some of these specs were truly abysmal), infrastructure (certain routes were dropping as much as 50% of packets), and people's own ISP and hardware (some users reported as much as 12% packet loss from their own box). The "netcode" improvements also have to be able to satisfy as many people as possible. When 30Hz was first turned on, people with low bandwidth that played fine at 10 started experiencing quite a few problems. Servers run 4 instances of the BF4 server on one physical machine. One service provider had specs that were inferior to my computer. BF4 already has reduced as much of its network usage as possible yet it's already taking up quite a bit. Its sensitivity to packet loss kind of attests to that.

So before everyone should've looked at update rates, they should've isolated their variables. They should've checked to make sure their hardware wasn't faulty. Sure, increasing the update rate is great and all, but if the hardware is still bad (50% packet loss is lol) nothing's going to really change.
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  • "ARE5R06" started this thread

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Friday, March 27th 2015, 5:15pm

@Noctyrne:

Sorry, I typed "server specs", when I was going to write "server requirement specs". Thank you for your comment. Isolating my variables, well I dont have any variables changed. Same Console (well I bought a new PS3, so new model), same provider, same uptime speed since 2 years. Yeah, you can argue that I havent done my work properly and didnt go through my modems log-files and stuff, but if I cant read it then it doesnt matter at all; and this is stuff I cant even manipulate.

Furthermore this stresses out my brain scratching question even more: If the Hardware is faulty, then the problems should occur when playing BF3 too! But they dont!
BF3 servers are still running and you can test it out yourself at any time. The hardware doesnt change within both games, but the difference is there.

Maybe @Haber is right and it comes down to TTK. But this can only be a fraction of the complete answer, as AEK had pre-September-patch the same TTK as in BF3.

@iota, I know. you mentioned that a lot, but this does only come down to my opinion to a small extent. And its not redundant, as I was asking, why it did work in BF3 and it didnt in BF4? There is no doubt about problems, but the question is why!
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Friday, March 27th 2015, 5:21pm

There is no doubt about problems

no there is, that's why i'm saying that this thread is radundant, if for you bf3 didn't have problems and for me bf4 doesn't, that means none had problems right? no, because for you there were problems in bf4, and for me in bf3(and if i turn on that infamous upnp i can't even play battlefield games, so go figure).
here the question shouldn't be "why bf3 worked and bf4 didn't?" but, "why did bf3 work for most and didn't for some, while bf4 was the opposite?"
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bf4
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bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

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Friday, March 27th 2015, 5:27pm

Frame rate drops exacerbate the feeling of poor performance due to netcode. On something as old as PS3 hardware the difference in frame rates between BF3 and BF4 is significant. I'm on PS4 and I still get big frame rate slowdowns on BF4. I believe PS3 users feel some of the worst performance due to poor frame rate along with netcode related issues that all platforms experience. Slow frames means late and bundled notifications.

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Friday, March 27th 2015, 5:29pm

Frame rate drops exacerbate the feeling of poor performance due to netcode. On something as old as PS3 hardware the difference in frame rates between BF3 and BF4 is significant. I'm on PS4 and I still get big frame rate slowdowns on BF4. I believe PS3 users feel some of the worst performance due to poor frame rate along with netcode related issues that all platforms experience. Slow frames means late and bundled notifications.

well, that can work for ps3, but can with ps4? the game logic runs at 30fps after all.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif




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Friday, March 27th 2015, 6:18pm

Bf3 barley ran on my PS3 slim when ever there was a massive explosion the server would crash, as well as never being able to connect to a game were I have lost contact with EA. From there there would be no way bf4 would run on the ps3 even if it did it would be worse.

Now you have to remember that ps3 has/had a larger insatll base during bf4 release so more people = more complaints making it seem worse then it actually is. so people praise that BC2 has better "netcode" than current installments which you know is wrong.

Plus there is the fact that bf4 and bf3 run on different versions of frostbite so that just throws more variables at it.

"netcode" will never be perfect but good enough, hell even csgo players bitch and moan about 128 tick serevers but that's not so much a bad thing since if you complain enough or speak your opinion there will improvements.


If you remember, youtubers were able to play at LAN and they said it was "perfect" that's a best case scenario now add transatlantic fiber lines and network conjestion/shaping/throttleing by ISP's on old infrastructure where only recently fiber has been emerging to consumer markets. WIth people cutting the cord more and more there are people using more and more internet .


Basic Idea is that there are so many variables and from household to household internet is not equal. There is also that bf in recent years is using a hybrid system only which that I am a aware of so it's a pioneer in that sense,

with client side detection it will favor the shooter more giving better satisfaction to it's player base because you won;t have to deal with fucking server side detection where on your screen you hit them 10 times but server side there were behind a wall where with client side if there are there on your screen then you can kill them. I makes more sense to the shooter it;s easier to understand where for example that with server side you may have to predict where they will be in reference to the server no where they are now.

plus the fact that bf takes for to run then the average video network wise. From server side water simulation in bf4/ to larger player sizes. a tipical priing for a bf slot is over a $1.25 ( I belive) where for something like cs it's under a $1.


something somthing somthing, these are concepts that some poeple go to uni/college to study to the average teenager won't understand/ or care for especially when now they have been gifted with technology where they don;t even know how it came to be or works on a basic level.
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Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.


intel best ethernet controllers


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TL;DR: all vehicles in BF4 are screwed up in some way or another.



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