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Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

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131

Monday, May 4th 2015, 11:29pm

@marbleduck

It really doesn't need a scout heli. No heli whores are wanted on this map.

Back to the topic, I kind of do want to have just 1 LAV for each side, but I certainly won't be complaining if there's just an AMTRAC and transport heli for both sides.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


NoctyrneSAGA

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132

Tuesday, May 5th 2015, 1:47am

Welcome to SurveyMonkey!

CMP now officially in production according to t1gge.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

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133

Tuesday, May 5th 2015, 11:21am

I'd love for them to make the rivers wider so there can be RHIB boat chases

C0llis

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134

Tuesday, May 5th 2015, 11:52am

I'd rather they make the rivers more shallow, or at least make it more clear where you can drive a vehicle through the river and where you can't.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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135

Friday, May 8th 2015, 11:29am

So considering that this map is everything I did not vote for...how does the map so far play out when compared to the maps we have so far? Does it play out like Guilin Peaks? Or more like Lumphini Garden? Maybe even similar to Altai? How far are the flag distances? Do you have to use transport vehicles to get to back flags? What are the nearest and the furthest flag distances? Can you flank around unseen? What about visibility (once they add shrubbery and such)? Is there any cover from above? Will there be cover at all between the flags? Is there one point of high ground that is hard to access but can be easily defended? Does that vantage point have LoS on more than one flag or pathways? Does the focus lie on infantry battles or are there vehicles (including Transport) for every player? Are there MRAPs around at a certain number so you can finally make decent use of them on a map, or again just dirtbikes and quads? Maybe an AMTRAC?

And so forth. I am rather unthrilled by the setting, size and layout and landscape. But if people like C0llis or BleedingUranium vouch for it I might be pleasantly surprised for once by map design.

C0llis

Up and down. Bounce all around

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136

Friday, May 8th 2015, 3:03pm

@VincentNZ

If I have to compare it with one map I would say it's a bit like Altai without the central flag and with elevation extremes more evenly divided around the map.

The map lends itself to long range engagements, running a DMR (or a long range AR or LMG) is likely something you will do. Most engagements are at distances where most carbines are going to be lacking. That said snipers aren't that much of a problem because the sight lines aren't long enough at most places to allow BAs to pull ahead of DMRs.

Flags are pretty far between, transport vehicles are a must for most movement between flags. The only distances I consider to be sprinting distances are B-C and C-D (~200 m), but D-E and A-B (~250 m) can be done too, any other distances pretty much require transports. The flags that are the furthest apart are E and A, at ~600 m.

Currently visibility is so-so, but target identification is easy because the map is untextured (grey), which makes soldiers stand out really well. The map is covered with dense bushes and trees so once it gets textures (and if the vegetation density stays the same) it will play out similar to the night maps. Thermal/IRNV is going to be really good, and even now with the untextured map it pays off more than usual. I've had many frantic shootouts in a bush where neither player really sees the other one and just shoots in their general direction while praying to RNGjesus. There are also big areas with very little cover and vegetation, often between flags which is part of why transports are so important. Flanking around to rear flags can be done pretty easily with transports, but distances are too long to be covered on foot and you risk getting picked off/spotted when crossing one of the open fields.

Cover (or rather, "concealment") from above is very good, there are lots of trees and bushes to hide players from the transport heli gunners. 3D spots and people in the open are the ones who will die to the heli, people in vegetation will be too hard to see, especially when the map gets textures.

There isn't any point of high ground that is both hard to reach, easy to defend and has good LoS across the map. Most places of high ground only have overview of one flag and some of the routes to and that flag, and those pieces of high ground can be entered from pretty much all sides, so while you gain good overwatch you also make yourself vulnerable from everywhere. The most prominent piece of high ground is near C with LoS across all of C and the routes to C from B, A and E, but players are very exposed on that hill so any campers there are easily dealt with.

The focus is on infantry combat, but the tank and transport heli makes engineers important and prevalent. There are no MRAPs and I don't think they are a good addition until their torque gets fixed. They would only get stuck everywhere and otherwise just be rocket bait because they are so big and slow. The vehicles on the map are a tank, a transport heli, a jeep and 2 bikes in each spawn and then 2 fast transports (jeep, quad or bike) per flag.


Personally, I think the map plays pretty nice _currently_, but I would rather see an IFV* than the tank (fits better with the map and gameplay and doesn't murder the transport as hard). I'm not sure I will like the map as much once it gets textures because I'm not exactly thrilled about playing "chase a guy around a bush like Benny Hill" and "get triple tapped by a guy prone in a bush with a FLIR DMR parked next to his medbag", but that's just me.

*If IFVs get non-terrible turret elevation and torque anytime soon.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "C0llis" (May 8th 2015, 3:13pm)


VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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137

Saturday, May 9th 2015, 6:30pm

Well C0llis thank you for that summary. From what I read it is still too big for my liking, I think 150m from one flag to another is more than enough and ground transports should not be necessary, to get anywhere.

I just saw the couple of screens on the flag scenes and I am not impressed either. I think it is just so generic to have a temple, a waterfall, a village, a small military facility in one place. I do not see the bauthentic background here either.
Nevertheless, it is free content for my shooter so I will play it. I just hope the next BF game will have something to offer me in terms of map design.