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NoctyrneSAGA

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Thursday, November 13th 2014, 1:27am

Reversing Sniper Damage Model

Sniper Rifles are meant for long range engagements. They have the appropriate accuracy for this. They have the appropriate optics for this. So then, why is it that they do not have the appropriate damage model for this?

Sniper Rifles follow the exact same damage model that all the other weapons use: they are stronger up close than they are far away. This is a direct contradiction for what they're intended to do. In fact, it ultimately promotes a playstyle that blatantly goes against everything that goes into making a Sniper Rifle a Sniper Rifle. It promotes and rewards quickscoping and usage of an ostensibly long range weapon as a close range weapon. But that's not all. The damage model also prevents the Sniper Rifle from being a useful long range weapon anyways because it follows the model of "stronger up close and weaker far away." It is too weak at its intended range to actually be viable.

The damage that Sniper Rifles inflict for their intended ranges means that they take at least 2 chest/leg shots to kill a player at full health. This is a big problem. Given the travel time for projectiles, it is rather difficult to hit a moving target. Your first shot injures them and sets them into a frenzied serpentine dash that can make it extremely difficult to finish them off. Not only that, but you've essentially telegraphed to them that they are being fired upon by a weapon that has a significant delay between shots. AKA, they have a chance to get away. Not to mention that the player behind the Sniper Rifle first has to become well-acquainted enough with their rifle's muzzle velocity and gravity values before they can even reliably hit the broadside of a barn. When you add in multiple targets with this BTK, the effectiveness that the Sniper Rifle has drops dramatically.

But wait, there's something that helps facilitate one shot kills! The 2.35x headshot multiplier!

Consider this. The head is a small target. It bobs around a lot. The headshot is something that Hollywood action films have glorified when in fact it is the least practical target to shoot at. This impracticality is also partially why Sniper Rifles fail to deliver as long range weapon platforms. In order to reliably kill the target, you have to hit a small target that is potentially moving a lot. And if you miss, your target scurries right into cover. There is a reason why Sniper Schools (yes these exist) train their students to shoot the chest. The headshot certainly is lethal, but it is a small and challenging target to hit. The torso on the other hand, is significantly larger and easier to hit. BUT it also has the heart, lungs, liver, spleen, stomach, and pretty much a whole bunch of vital goodies that are equally valuable as a target.

By reversing the damage model, we solve the issues that Sniper Rifles have. Inflicting a 100 damage chest shot is significantly easier than trying to score a 138 damage headshot, thereby increasing the influence that Sniper Rifles can have on a Battlefield map. As it stands right now, how many dedicated Sniper Rifle users do you know that can reliably KILL moving targets on a regular basis at Sniper Rifle ranges? Looking at the Sniper Rifle leaderboards, I have severe doubt that many of them got up there "sniping" and suspect that they're there because of "quickscoping." (Some pseudo-science and calculations put out this number: assuming that you have an entirely new set of players aside from yourself in a series of Battlefield matches, you will meet an effective Sniper Rifle user once out of every ~400 matches. ONCE out of every 400 matches!!!)

The benefit of reversing the damage model will also stop the worrying trend of "quickscoping" which is an inappropriate way of using the Sniper Rifle. To the people who advocate such a playstyle, I say this: "Prepare to pay your surgeon extra if they decide to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of your surgery. He should be rewarded for using the wrong tool for the job right?" If you want something that kills quickly in CQB, use an actual shotgun instead of pretending the Sniper Rifle is one.

For those of you worrying about running along and suddenly dying to a one-shot Sniper Rifle without ever seeing it coming: would you rather die to Sniper Rifles being used properly or for being used as close range weapons? I prefer dying to a player that uses their weapon appropriately than to one that isn't. Also, the long running joke is that Recons hardly make a difference on the Battlefield. This one change could potentially fix this issue so why would you be opposed to it? Lastly, if you're really worried about dying without ever seeing it coming, you can still use Body Armor to give yourself a freebie.

But wait, what about rewarding skill!

I will address this in two parts. The first: in the previous pseudo-mathscience, it was found that the mythical Recon player capable of reliably killing moving targets with their Sniper Rifle at long range will be found once out of every 400 matches. Arguably, this player will be the only Recon that will actually be making a difference among the other Recon players. I find this troubling. The amount of effort to become effective appears to be extremely disproportionate for the benefit it provides to yourself (good point yield and good K/D) and to your team (engaging targets from a safe distance). Therefore, it would be prudent to change the difficulty to become an effective Sniper. As it is right now, there are far too few of them to truly make a difference on the Battlefield.

The second: Reversing the damage model will actually INCREASE the skillcap for quickscoping. They will be required to hit the head (which by the way, is far easier up close than far away). They have only one zone to guarantee a kill. Wouldn't you enjoy something that rewards such skill?

While rewarding skill is quite obviously something that many players appreciate, there is something wrong when the amount of players that have reached the skill ceiling to be effectgive are low enough to be counted on one hand. If they exist at all. There has to be a balance between skill and effectiveness. As it is now, Sniper Rifles require too much skill and are not effective enough.

TL;DR - Reverse Sniper Rifle damage. Increases Sniper Rifle effectiveness as long range weapons by lowering a previously disproportionately high barrier to entry. Discourages CQB Quickscoping while also increasing the skill needed to be effective with it.



Also, this would make the SR338 something really special. It'd be a 2 shot to the body while also being a one shot to the head. At Sniper Rifle ranges.



EDIT:

In order to clear up what appears to be quite a lot of confusion regarding just how much larger the OHK area would be, this is only going to spread OHK to the upper chest area covered by the player's vest. This constitutes the upper chest hitbox with a multiplier of 1.0x for Sniper Rifles. Any further down and you strike the 0.93x stomach multiplier which is not an OHK.

Apologies for the confusion, but this is why it's important everyone is on the same page.

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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Dec 5th 2014, 7:55am)


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Thursday, November 13th 2014, 2:10am

Fuck CQB snipers. Get a shotgun.
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Thursday, November 13th 2014, 2:12am

I really like this idea Having the Snipers do more damage at distance is actually somewhat realistic because i have heard because of the faster velocity of high caliber rifle rounds they tend to punch right through targets without fragmenting/tumbling. The only problem i see right away is the fact that 100 damage is still affected by body armor and because it seems that half the people still use it it would still mean a 2 hit kill unless there was an additional chest multiplier or changing the damage to counter act body armor.

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Thursday, November 13th 2014, 2:16am

CQB sniping already has horrible hipfire, low RPMs, long scoping in times and body armor to fight with.. it's really not effective unless you're amazing. So no, I don't like this idea.

Buffing sniper muzzle velocities significantly would be a much better alternative, allowing you to land headshots or 2 bodyshots with ease even against moving targets (depending on the buff and the distance) without affecting the current situation at close ranges
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Thursday, November 13th 2014, 3:08am

Had this idea back in BF3 but apparently that was stupid because herp derp quickscopez ftw apparently...

But yeah, always aiming for the head is just silly and although you can gloat about being pro at hitting the head it just makes snipers useless... Although just directly reversing the damage might make it too easy, just one shot kill to the chest at most ranges.. Hitting people is really easy, hitting the head is really hard :>

If they're brought down to a sliver of health they're kinda out of the fight anyways, although at the same time it would be really unrewarding if you always needed 2 hits(apart from the head) to get a kill and thus points ;o

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Thursday, November 13th 2014, 3:13am

This would be balanced by adding some spread to snipers and changing dropoff ranges.
For example (these are just examples, obviously): M98B might have 0 spread, but it would only reach its max damage at 300 meters. CS5 might have .05 or .1 spread, but reach its max damage at only 100 meters.

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Thursday, November 13th 2014, 3:16am

75+ dmg assist counts as kill, Aen.

If you're shooting people who might find themselves in an engagement soon (and if you're not, wat), you'll most probably get the kill through the assist :3

I honestly have no issue with the idea. Whenever I do sniper recon it's not exactly easy to secure a one shot at 150-300 metres, because those guys tend to be jumping around a flag burn. Lots of kill assists and lots of finishing off wounded targets, anyway.

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NoctyrneSAGA

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Thursday, November 13th 2014, 3:19am

The only problem i see right away is the fact that 100 damage is still affected by body armor and because it seems that half the people still use it it would still mean a 2 hit kill unless there was an additional chest multiplier or changing the damage to counter act body armor


You can still aim for the head to guarantee a one shot kill at range. This just makes it easier by making it so that a headshot is not absolutely required to score a kill.

Had this idea back in BF3 but apparently that was stupid because herp derp quickscopez ftw apparently...

But yeah, always aiming for the head is just silly and although you can gloat about being pro at hitting the head it just makes snipers useless... Although just directly reversing the damage might make it too easy, just one shot kill to the chest at most ranges.. Hitting people is really easy, hitting the head is really hard :>

If they're brought down to a sliver of health they're kinda out of the fight anyways, although at the same time it would be really unrewarding if you always needed 2 hits(apart from the head) to get a kill and thus points ;o


Well, there's still Body Armor to contend with.

Also, I didn't want to overcomplicate the original post because I'd actually need some math for this, but introducing Sniper Rifle minspread would also serve to differentiate the Sniper Rifles into their "ranges." And even change the damage drop off like R said.

The ostensible fast rechamber lolCQB sniper rifles would be confined to "short distance sniping" instead of CQB sniping while the Magnum Snipers would keep their 0 ADS spread because they're meant for extremely long range.

The others would fall in the middle.

I'm sure Labby could generate some good numbers for this.

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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Thursday, November 13th 2014, 3:28am

Literally EVERYONE would use defensive because NOBODY wants to die in one shot from across the map. The gameplay design of Battlefield doesn't lend itself particularly well to (very) long-range play anyway, and honestly sniper rifles don't even belong in the game... but they are there if you're willing to accept the challenge. If the damage model was 59-80 on the other hand...

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Thursday, November 13th 2014, 3:38am

If the damage model was 59-80 on the other hand...

That accomplishes absolutely nothing.


I support this idea entirely. The only real argument against it is that it will make more people want to bush wookie. But hell, if bush wookies become actually useful, then why is that a problem?