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NoctyrneSAGA

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61

Thursday, January 15th 2015, 9:37pm

I cannot find a list of all in-game formulas, but I have read somewhere on this forum, that the formula of calculating the bullet spread includes the FPS value (I understood FPS as "Frames Per Second" and I hope not something else has been meant with FPS). Please correct me if I am wrong, but that's the reason why I thought so.


No.

Why would it use FPS?
Data Browser

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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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  • "3VerstsNorth" started this thread

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Thursday, January 15th 2015, 9:50pm

As I recall, FPS has no real in-game influence because if it did, people playing at 60 FPS would be running through the game world faster than people playing at 30 FPS.
I cannot find a list of all in-game formulas, but I have read somewhere on this forum, that the formula of calculating the bullet spread includes the FPS value (I understood FPS as "Frames Per Second" and I hope not something else has been meant with FPS). Please correct me if I am wrong, but that's the reason why I thought so.

Maybe a list of the formulas for the important stuff would be nifty.
Yeah, exactly this. FPS @ 30/60/120 Hz appeared to have no effect on the memory probe scans. FPS @ 85 and 144 Hz introduced 'variability', which I never really tracked down (whether it was detrimental or could be used or abused somehow). Variability = occasional jitter in the recoil time series, which is most likely explained by occasional synchronization of the monitor drawing with the game engine.
Ok, I get it. Thank you for your help. Sorry for the inconvenience.


To the best of my knowledge, all (most, many, quite a few, some, pick what you like) relevant algorithms for BF4 infantry shooting are here: Algorithms for the Shooting Mechanics in BF4. It's maybe not that pretty or accessible but should be quite up to date incl. links to prior art.

And no need to be sorry. This is what we do when we should be doing something else ;).
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
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63

Friday, January 16th 2015, 7:37am

As I recall, FPS has no real in-game influence

Except for the (mouse) inputlag/delay that appears to decrease with higher FPS.

  • "3VerstsNorth" started this thread

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64

Friday, January 16th 2015, 7:48am

As I recall, FPS has no real in-game influence

Except for the (mouse) inputlag/delay that appears to decrease with higher FPS.

Noctyrne's quote is a bit out of the context there. Noctyrne says FPS has no real in-game influence on game dynamics as determined by the client's game engine / game-logic loop whatever, or client-server interactions, and as far as we know, it is exactly so.

FPS has a huge multi-faceted in-game influence on human-computer interaction and playability of the game.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
"Many bullets help." WoopsyYaya
"most rhetorically legitimate ad hominem 2015" ToTheSun!

marbleduck

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Monday, January 26th 2015, 6:46pm

So, I'm currently running a 111Hz monitor. Would this impact my shooting in a different way?

Platoon Marble Duck

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"you obviously don't know what an argument is as there is only one person battling. Do you really fucking think I want subs? You think you can act all big and powerful just because you sit on a computer at least 6 hours a day like the probably nerdy unwanted retard you are with 4.3k subs? You think 4.3k subs is a lot? LOL you need medicine man. I don't want any subs as i just have a google account for other media and writing comments. Think twice before you act. You even said in your video you aren't that great of a player, and the comments agree you aren't. Maybe you should once again think twice before you act, stop being such an annoying, ignorant bastard that everyone wants to shut up, and god, literally, just shut up. Your voice gave me a headache :s"

"As a youtuber shouldn't be trying to be reeling in your viewers with exciting stuff being said not your boring ass commentary for your video"

"The more you watch his vid the dumber he gets I swear he's borderline autistic look I got shot behind cover beacuase thin sheets metal are unpenetrable. Bf4 is just as quiet and tactical as bf3 random explosion in the background . Player has dissconected from chat
You started playing bf3 and never touched bfc1/2. Please do yourself a favor and shutdown your generic cod channel down"

"Nice clickb8 Faggot w8ting for your shit tier video to disable comments . Fucking newfag cancer go play some cod you activisiom cock faggot"

"I don't see why he [MarbleDuck] always tries to shit on levelcap he is better and has a million more subs...and also "there isnt a best gun in she game there are guns that are better that others at different engagement distances" yes thats true and whichever is the best/most average at all of them is the "best gun""

"Marbleduck you don't know shit lol levelcap knows more than you do you cant talk about how someone puts up garbage when you do yourself your a newcomer to YouTube acting like you know shit step up in the food chain first then you have the right to talk otherwise your just a fish trying to compete with sharks"

"Why don't we just witness "LevelCap vs MarbleDuck" One on One both on Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 4 seen as there is so much Controversy about the Two Youtubers"

"stfu cunt, BF3 was way better end of discussion"

"Stfu man, you're be littleing the most looked upon Battlefield Youtuber. No one cares about you, how much of an ego you have, or quite frankly your opinion. It's a fucking game.... Does it really fucking matter? Pathetic man."

"fuck you asshole, dont talk shit about total"

"Wtf is your problem? You have no subs and he has millions, yet you pick on him like some kind of stubborn, ignorant, rude child born with a silver spoon is his mouth. It's easy to do that, for example... You said there was no background noise yet there is. You say you're a fairly good player, you're not."

"please talk like a normal person and not like a professional"

Miffyli

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66

Monday, January 26th 2015, 6:53pm

So, I'm currently running a 111Hz monitor. Would this impact my shooting in a different way?

No. Monitor's refresh rate (unless you capped your FPS to it) doesn't affect your shooting. 3VN mentioned there were some weird values at certain FPSes but those differencies were very minimal.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

marbleduck

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67

Monday, January 26th 2015, 7:01pm

So, I'm currently running a 111Hz monitor. Would this impact my shooting in a different way?

No. Monitor's refresh rate (unless you capped your FPS to it) doesn't affect your shooting. 3VN mentioned there were some weird values at certain FPSes but those differencies were very minimal.


Just to clarify, I do cap my FPS at 111Frames/sec. How "minimal" are we talking? Would, as an arbitrary example, the DPS difference between 570 and 590 RPM weapons (ignoring the fact that one does 33 max, and the other, 24), occur at 7 bullets rather than 8, with my capped FPS?

Platoon Marble Duck

Hate Mail

"you obviously don't know what an argument is as there is only one person battling. Do you really fucking think I want subs? You think you can act all big and powerful just because you sit on a computer at least 6 hours a day like the probably nerdy unwanted retard you are with 4.3k subs? You think 4.3k subs is a lot? LOL you need medicine man. I don't want any subs as i just have a google account for other media and writing comments. Think twice before you act. You even said in your video you aren't that great of a player, and the comments agree you aren't. Maybe you should once again think twice before you act, stop being such an annoying, ignorant bastard that everyone wants to shut up, and god, literally, just shut up. Your voice gave me a headache :s"

"As a youtuber shouldn't be trying to be reeling in your viewers with exciting stuff being said not your boring ass commentary for your video"

"The more you watch his vid the dumber he gets I swear he's borderline autistic look I got shot behind cover beacuase thin sheets metal are unpenetrable. Bf4 is just as quiet and tactical as bf3 random explosion in the background . Player has dissconected from chat
You started playing bf3 and never touched bfc1/2. Please do yourself a favor and shutdown your generic cod channel down"

"Nice clickb8 Faggot w8ting for your shit tier video to disable comments . Fucking newfag cancer go play some cod you activisiom cock faggot"

"I don't see why he [MarbleDuck] always tries to shit on levelcap he is better and has a million more subs...and also "there isnt a best gun in she game there are guns that are better that others at different engagement distances" yes thats true and whichever is the best/most average at all of them is the "best gun""

"Marbleduck you don't know shit lol levelcap knows more than you do you cant talk about how someone puts up garbage when you do yourself your a newcomer to YouTube acting like you know shit step up in the food chain first then you have the right to talk otherwise your just a fish trying to compete with sharks"

"Why don't we just witness "LevelCap vs MarbleDuck" One on One both on Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 4 seen as there is so much Controversy about the Two Youtubers"

"stfu cunt, BF3 was way better end of discussion"

"Stfu man, you're be littleing the most looked upon Battlefield Youtuber. No one cares about you, how much of an ego you have, or quite frankly your opinion. It's a fucking game.... Does it really fucking matter? Pathetic man."

"fuck you asshole, dont talk shit about total"

"Wtf is your problem? You have no subs and he has millions, yet you pick on him like some kind of stubborn, ignorant, rude child born with a silver spoon is his mouth. It's easy to do that, for example... You said there was no background noise yet there is. You say you're a fairly good player, you're not."

"please talk like a normal person and not like a professional"

Miffyli

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: Mar 21st 2013

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68

Monday, January 26th 2015, 7:06pm

So, I'm currently running a 111Hz monitor. Would this impact my shooting in a different way?

No. Monitor's refresh rate (unless you capped your FPS to it) doesn't affect your shooting. 3VN mentioned there were some weird values at certain FPSes but those differencies were very minimal.


Just to clarify, I do cap my FPS at 111Frames/sec. How "minimal" are we talking? Would, as an arbitrary example, the DPS difference between 570 and 590 RPM weapons (ignoring the fact that one does 33 max, and the other, 24), occur at 7 bullets rather than 8, with my capped FPS?


Quoted from ""3VN""

Yeah, exactly this. FPS @ 30/60/120 Hz appeared to have no effect on the memory probe scans. FPS @ 85 and 144 Hz introduced 'variability', which I never really tracked down (whether it was detrimental or could be used or abused somehow). Variability = occasional jitter in the recoil time series, which is most likely explained by occasional synchronization of the monitor drawing with the game engine.


So a small, random variance which probably sums up to plus-minus zero "advantage".
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

  • "3VerstsNorth" started this thread

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69

Monday, January 26th 2015, 7:29pm

@marbleduck

Do you also select 111Hz from the in-game settings? The monitor FPS, AFAIK, does not influence anything, but the in-game refresh setting influences the "in-game monitor frames refresh loop" (no shit sherlock) that in turn appears to interact with the ~30 Hz "game logic loop", probably trying to keep them as synced as possible, given the frequency ratio.


Uh. I should check out the FPS issue.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
"Many bullets help." WoopsyYaya
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Thursday, February 5th 2015, 5:21pm

This has been an interesting read and I am still trying to digest it. I'm no game designer and maybe I have this all wrong but I assumed there were at least three loops in the client:

1. Update:
  • Refresh rate (FPS) of the display
  • There may be an inner loop or timer here which is used with the in game monitor refresh setting
  • This is not a fixed time and may vary based on what the graphics is doing or other loads on the computer
  • User input (keys and mouse)
  • Timers


2. FixedUpdate (game/physics)
  • Appears to be either 30Hz or 60 Hz
  • Game sacrifices graphic updates if necessary to keep this fixed
  • All physics are updated
  • Gun fire logic (recoil, bullet position [for graphic update], sway, etc.)


3. NetCode
  • Assumed to be either 30Hz or 10Hz depending on distance to object (the "bubble")
  • Sends latest physics data needed to determine player position and weapon info (e.g., initial bullet position, speed, type, direction, etc.)


If this is the case then the physics are updated on the client fast enough to take into consideration any gun fire mechanics since the physics are updated faster than the fire rate of the guns in question (e.g., at 1000 rpm gun is 16.7 Hz) ... no?

Also, for inside the bubble the netcode sends updates faster than the fire rate of the gun, I think. Though for something like the Famas it appears there is the possibility to miss a frame.

Also, because of this, you may get a user input recorded by the Update loop but there is a slight delay before it is acted on by the Fixed loop.

To me, the question is what does the server do with the data? Does it just get initial bullet/knife/shell info and to all the physics updates and hit detection based on received data from a competitor (for moving objects that use physics)?

Just some rookie thoughts and questions based on my simple minded thought process.