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ToTheSun!

Be Creative.

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: Mar 9th 2012

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Location: Portugal

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11

Monday, October 20th 2014, 9:47am

That they'll recruit hackers, computer gurus, or even some from our staff

Don't forget the FBI and the NSA.

  • "3VerstsNorth" started this thread

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: Apr 12th 2013

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Location: Guilin Peaks, Finland

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12

Monday, October 20th 2014, 11:25am

I knew rate of fire wasn't as important as others made it out to be! This is pure gold! Does this mean low rate of fire weapons have a sizable chance against high rate of fire weapons if the user is super accurate?

Exactly. Low rpm weapons have an initial advantage by having the same de facto rpm but less recoil and spread decrease. But if these bullets don't give the kill, the low rpm player still has to suffer either the subsequently lower rpm in sustained shooting or the longer time-between-bursts.

Instead of looking into awkward frame rates (non-multiples of 30 Hz), I think the next step should be finding out the termination conditions for a burst and the timing for when the gun can fire again. These info can then be used to identify the optimal burst sizes etc. (and no, I did not say 'exploits' or 'mechanic-abuse-possibilities' coz I'm sure there are none ^^ ).

Quoted

Haha, an analysis of this magnitude leads me to believe a DICE employee will see what you (and all those involved) have discovered and make it their mission that this information does not leak to the public. That they'll recruit hackers, computer gurus, or even some from our staff to suppress or even eliminate this thread and all its contents.

I'm sure Miffyli has made Symthic nuke-proof. 8)
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
"Many bullets help." WoopsyYaya
"most rhetorically legitimate ad hominem 2015" ToTheSun!

MrT3a

The only man who ever reported his own post!

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13

Monday, October 20th 2014, 12:25pm

We get back on the old adage : microbusrting is your friend.

Thanks for this thread ^^

Sent from phone.
Stats thingy

Quotes of wisdom (maybe)


I'm a battlefield player, good sir. I don't play metro.

PC is no longer PC master race. It's PC mustard race, because consoles need to ketchup :'D

DICE gave so much into making commander better, but lemmings be lemmings I guess.

As a good guy that don't want to use overly glitched weapons, I'll quit using the MTAR and switch to the ACWR until it's fixed

The world needs more people like you


+1, I think we're all in agreement that more MrT3as would be an awesome thing :love:
Although if that was the case they'd use up so much of the world's awesome that there'd be none left for the rest of us! :D

yes, I know, I'm a big-ass hypocrite

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14

Monday, October 20th 2014, 4:07pm

one thing of note:

what the game is showing us, isn't necessarily what the game is doing. much of this thread consists of looking at recorded footage and spotting the muzzle flash, but that doesn't necessarily indicate when the actual bullet is fired.

on the other hand, this info (thanks 3VN and Miffyli!) does conform with what we already know about 900+ RPM weapons, being that they fire their first two shots with no recoil.
i can't read!

so for now: fire everything in 2 round bursts!

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "tehmoriz" (Oct 20th 2014, 4:22pm)


Miffyli

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15

Monday, October 20th 2014, 4:14pm

what the game is showing us, isn't necessarily what the game is doing. much of this thread consists of looking at recorded footage and spotting the muzzle flash, but that doesn't necessarily indicate when the actual bullet is fired.

Ummm... No video recording was used here, only values from the memory along with a timestamp. While it is possible those values are off (ie. spesifically the one we're looking for is somewhere else) I really doubt it and they seem spot-on.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

  • "3VerstsNorth" started this thread

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16

Monday, October 20th 2014, 4:23pm

what the game is showing us, isn't necessarily what the game is doing. much of this thread consists of looking at recorded footage and spotting the muzzle flash, but that doesn't necessarily indicate when the actual bullet is fired.


This is a valid concern. The line of evidence so far is:

1) frame-by-frame analysis of video captures show a bullet tracer in the same frame as the muzzle flash
2) still in the video, in the frame following muzzle flash, all V recoil is applied (aimpoint is moved so if bullet is out, it has to be shot before v recoil is applied)
3) concurrent video and memory recordings show that memory recoil values are always synchronized with the video recoil, hence the rest of the memory-probe data (i.e. all data studied in this thread) are likely to match video data
4) hence the most likely 'bullet-out' frame is the one before the 'V-recoil frame'.

To get conclusive in-game evidence for the bullet being generated in this frame, we are going to need teh haxors. And then, can the bullet hit already in this frame or is hit-reg handled in the following one?
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
"Many bullets help." WoopsyYaya
"most rhetorically legitimate ad hominem 2015" ToTheSun!

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17

Monday, October 20th 2014, 4:23pm

Ummm... No video recording was used here, only values from the memory along with a timestamp. While it is possible those values are off (ie. spesifically the one we're looking for is somewhere else) I really doubt it and they seem spot-on.


this is what i get for not unhiding the spoiler tag. thanks for the correction.

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18

Monday, October 20th 2014, 4:34pm

on the other hand, this info (thanks 3VN and Miffyli!) does conform with what we already know about 900+ RPM weapons, being that they fire their first two shots with no recoil. i can't read!
So, I'm pretty dumb with regards with to this, but is this accurately understood:

- Weapons at 900+ RPM get a bonus in that they fire the first two shots with no recoil (or only one count of recoil)

- Weapons at slower RPM (say, <700 RPM) get a bonus in that they actually fire the first few rounds at around 900 RPM

So assuming this is correct, where is the breaking point? At what RPM does it sync up perfectly with the update rate?

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19

Monday, October 20th 2014, 4:45pm

So, I'm pretty dumb with regards with to this, but is this accurately understood:

- Weapons at 900+ RPM get a bonus in that they fire the first two shots with no recoil (or only one count of recoil)

- Weapons at slower RPM (say, <700 RPM) get a bonus in that they actually fire the first few rounds at around 900 RPM

So assuming this is correct, where is the breaking point? At what RPM does it sync up perfectly with the update rate?


well, judging from 3VN's graphs, the breaking points are: 590 RPM, and 900 RPM. possibly related to the 59.95/2 hz refresh rates, which suggests that the optimal RPMs are actually 599.5 and 899.95, if i'm understanding it correctly.

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20

Monday, October 20th 2014, 5:29pm

Woah, so this would mean that a SAR-21 2-round micro-burst is the prime candidate here. Ho-ho-ho, look out high fire-rate sluts, there's a new sheriff in town, even though he's been here this whole time! Remarkable.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
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    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
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        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
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    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.2
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 1.2
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0

No Slowdown Data

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AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
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        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 1.0
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom -1.0
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.0
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 0.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.0
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0


No Auto Rotation Data

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 AccelerationInputThreshold 0.98
    AccelerationMultiplier 5.0
    AccelerationDamping 4.0
    AccelerationTimeThreshold 0.15
    SquaredAcceleration 0.0
    MaxAcceleration::Vec2
        x 2.0
        y 2.0
    YawSpeedStrength 1.0
    PitchSpeedStrength 1.0
    AttractDistanceFallOffs::Vec2
        x 1.0
        y 1.2
    AttractSoftZone 0.75
    AttractUserInputMultiplier 0.45
    AttractUserInputMultiplier_NoZoom 0.5
    AttractOwnSpeedInfluence 0.0
    AttractTargetSpeedInfluence 0.85
    AttractOwnRequiredMovementForMaximumAttract 0.0
    AttractStartInputThreshold 0.1
    AttractMoveInputCap 0.0
    AttractYawStrength 1.0
    AttractPitchStrength 0.34
    MaxToTargetAngle 45.0
    MaxToTargetXZAngle 45.0
    ViewObstructedKeepTime 0.0
    SnapZoomLateralSpeedLimit 1000.0
    SnapZoomTime 0.2
    SnapZoomPostTimeNoInput 0.0
    SnapZoomPostTime 0.0
    SnapZoomReticlePointPriority 999
    SnapZoomAutoEngageTime 0.0
    SnapZoomBreakTimeAtMaxInput -1.0
    SnapZoomBreakMaxInput 0.2
    SnapZoomBreakMinAngle 90.0
    SnapZoomSpamGuardTime 0.5
    SoldierBackupSkeletonCollisionData *nullGuid*
    CheckBoneCenterOnlyDistance 40.0
    DisableForcedTargetRecalcDistance 7.0

Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho