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Wednesday, April 15th 2015, 11:14am


Anywho, the passive suppresion is logical, because if it weren't so then a sole person could take cover to avoid fire and have a whole squad (possibly) spawn on him. How would you like to be shooting at one person, and then all of a sudden your getting shot at by 2 to 5 people? Doesn't sound so appealing to me
Easily addressed by tying squad spawn to health auto-regen. I believe the current timer is 8-10 seconds after taking damage/suppression and then your health starts to come back on it's own. If someone is able to auto-regen, squad spawn should be allowed on them.

Simple.
iirc it takes less time to start recovering from supression than it does to start health regen. So, if i've been able to interpret your plentiful comments correctly then this shouldnt be a problem for you. Which brings me right back around in a circle to the beginning of wondering what in the world you are complaining about.

I obviously dont understand your point, and i've been keeping up with this thread for a while now
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Wednesday, April 15th 2015, 9:59pm


iirc it takes less time to start recovering from supression than it does to start health regen. So, if i've been able to interpret your plentiful comments correctly then this shouldnt be a problem for you. Which brings me right back around in a circle to the beginning of wondering what in the world you are complaining about.

I obviously dont understand your point, and i've been keeping up with this thread for a while now
1) I started arguing why suppression should never have any physical effects on aim/guns/etc.
2) I gave up on the above after it became clear that Tiggr (CTE dev) wasn't changing his mind.
3) Then I suggested reducing the time it takes to recover from a fully suppressed state. Currently it takes up to 6-7 seconds to recover, I suggested cutting that down to 1-2 seconds so that the player trying to suppress has to actively keep suppressing.
4) Some folk here didn't like that, they want the effect to passively hang around for a while and called it "teamwork".
5) That's where it got a bit derailed around what's teamwork and what's isn't.
6) Then they resorted to using squad spawn as an excuse to keep long recovery times from suppression.
7) I pointed out that squad spawning should be tied more to direct hits than being suppressed.

Tiggr actually just confirmed on reddit that squad spawning mechanic is indeed revolves more around direct hits than being suppressed.

So we come back to my argument of cutting suppression recovery times down to 1-2 seconds, in order to require the person to maintain it more actively. If he stops firing, dies, or reloads then the effect should fall off almost immediately to give his enemies a chance to return fire.

Clear now? :thumbsup:

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Wednesday, April 15th 2015, 10:05pm

Given that LMGs require 5-7 seconds to reload, and a TTK of less than a second, recovery should be about 4-5 seconds so that the LMG has time to reload but everyone else will have a wide enough window to kill them before they finish.

Of course having 2 supports with LMGs completely solves this issue.

Either way, I don't really care.
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Wednesday, April 15th 2015, 10:20pm

Anyone got any ideas about what the UGL Rail on the L86 is for? (13/04 Patch notes.)

XM25 can't mount, can it? Looking forward to my Underslung Ammo box!
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Wednesday, April 15th 2015, 10:58pm


iirc it takes less time to start recovering from supression than it does to start health regen. So, if i've been able to interpret your plentiful comments correctly then this shouldnt be a problem for you. Which brings me right back around in a circle to the beginning of wondering what in the world you are complaining about.

I obviously dont understand your point, and i've been keeping up with this thread for a while now
1) I started arguing why suppression should never have any physical effects on aim/guns/etc.
2) I gave up on the above after it became clear that Tiggr (CTE dev) wasn't changing his mind.
3) Then I suggested reducing the time it takes to recover from a fully suppressed state. Currently it takes up to 6-7 seconds to recover, I suggested cutting that down to 1-2 seconds so that the player trying to suppress has to actively keep suppressing.
4) Some folk here didn't like that, they want the effect to passively hang around for a while and called it "teamwork".
5) That's where it got a bit derailed around what's teamwork and what's isn't.
6) Then they resorted to using squad spawn as an excuse to keep long recovery times from suppression.
7) I pointed out that squad spawning should be tied more to direct hits than being suppressed.

Tiggr actually just confirmed on reddit that squad spawning mechanic is indeed revolves more around direct hits than being suppressed.

So we come back to my argument of cutting suppression recovery times down to 1-2 seconds, in order to require the person to maintain it more actively. If he stops firing, dies, or reloads then the effect should fall off almost immediately to give his enemies a chance to return fire.

Clear now? :thumbsup:
much better. Now, to refine it around the weapons meant to have the most supression. BA and LMG. Both have Relatively long reload times and it takes a long time to empty a full ammount of ammo from each class of weapon. Surely one could argue that suppression should correlate to a kind of "area of denial" similar to how the Anti-Air currently functions. In order to do this though, there needs to be a longer "feeling" of supression so to speak. Maybe it would make more sense in a sort of operant conditioning sort of way. The supressor (agressor) is punishing the supressee (reciever of bullets) in order to create this sense of an area of denial. The maniacs that play these sorts of video games want the instant gratification of the kill, but supression should deny them of that same easy kill. There should be that down-time for the supressee to be forced to relocate him/herself in order to earn that kill, which might just be more rewarding than those 100 points that pops up on the screen. Consider it similar to winning a game of poker among your friends; there may not be any tangible reward, but it will still increase self-esteem and what not. I believe that should be a higher goal for this unique game mechanic in question (supression). To have players think harder and more logically towards a team oriented goal.

Does that make sense? I really, honestly hope that my long ass stream of though makes sense
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Gummybear" (Apr 15th 2015, 11:07pm)


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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 12:31am

Think of suppression as a debuff that makes it harder to move forward and shoot back.

If I decide to apply this debuff to enemies to give my teammates an advantage, it is definitely teamwork. In fact it mimics a real life tactic of laying down suppression while allies flank.

This hating of suppression lately seems motivated by individualism, because other FPS games reward players for being lone wolf twitch reflex gods. BF is supposed to reward for teamplay. It isn't you vs the entire enemy team.

When you start seeing suppression in that context, you can see it is purposefully preventing you from taking on the whole enemy team solo. You need teammates to cover you and suppress back. Sure you can still be a lone wolf, but it requires more in depth tactical thinking. Timing your engagements and disengagements becomes just as important as weapon handling skills. You need to have an escape plan to heal up and recover from suppression. If you don't try to run and gun brute force everything, you will realize there is a bit more nuance and depth to BF gameplay than other FPS games.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "untamedone" (Apr 16th 2015, 2:46am)


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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 2:55am

When you start seeing suppression in that context, you can see it is purposefully preventing you from taking on the whole enemy team solo. You need teammates to cover you and suppress back. Sure you can still be a lone wolf, but it requires more in depth tactical thinking. Timing your engagements and disengagements becomes just as important as weapon handling skills. You need to have an escape plan to heal up and recover from suppression. If you don't try to run and gun brute force everything, you will realize there is a bit more nuance and depth to BF gameplay than other FPS games.
The new suppression system actually makes lone-wolfing more viable. Most full auto guns can no longer suppress within close-medium range (on BF4 retail suppression happens at any range), so as an aggressive assault/engineer using a DMR within 0-60m I'll be more effective than ever.

I'll be able to take on several people one after the other without worrying about suppression building up too much.

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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 3:06am

Given that LMGs require 5-7 seconds to reload, and a TTK of less than a second, recovery should be about 4-5 seconds so that the LMG has time to reload but everyone else will have a wide enough window to kill them before they finish.


Exactly this. Burst firing, which you should be doing, should not allow a window for suppression to subside, but forcing a machine to reload is exactly the right way to counter them directly.


I'll be able to take on several people one after the other without worrying about suppression building up too much.


Right, it makes fast-paced, straight up CQB gunfights about exactly that, as they should be. That's why this new system works so well.
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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 3:30am

Most full auto guns can no longer suppress within close-medium range (on BF4 retail suppression happens at any range)


This is actually not entirely true for any weapon will be able to Suppress at close range given enough bullets.

It's just that MinSuppression has been reduced from 3.0 to 1.0 leading to significantly more bullets required to trigger Suppression.





Well looky here, it seems that t1ggr didn't necessarily mean that in-combat was based mostly on damage.

It looks like he meant that damage served as the bulk of it since Suppression at CQB was nerfed.

The assessment that less Suppression has led to more squad spawn bombing may be correct.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Apr 16th 2015, 3:40am)


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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 4:38am

Well then they need to tie squad spawns to actual direct hits don't they? E.g. no squad spawning within 5-8 seconds of taking a direct hit.

At least the amount of suppression happening at close/medium range gunfights isn't going to be changed just to address squad-bombing, and it should still fall off a lot faster IMO.

There are better ways to address squad bombing than tying it to suppression.