Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

mmacola

Console Testing Bro

(137)

Posts: 234

Date of registration
: Nov 23rd 2012

Platform: PS3

Location: Brazil

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

1,521

Monday, April 13th 2015, 2:01am

All weapons suppress outside of their effective range, there's nothing special about any specific class there.

That's precisely my point, and I believe that's the developers struggle.

Assault Rifle X is effective up to 150m, after that, it's only use is suppression.

Sniper Z is only effective post 100m. It also only effectively suppress at that range. Before that, it is useless.

So this weapon has no role in that range? Is there no way to make an entire kit-exclusive weapon class somewhat viable instead of niche-exclusive?

Huh, maybe the weapon needs a little something. How about being able to kill with chest shots for a little range? You know, even less range than the current 5btk pdws have currently? And if a player dislikes that, he can even use a hard counter available at level 0: Body Armor.

Edit: Spelling

Posts: 234

Date of registration
: Aug 28th 2014

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

  • Send private message

1,522

Monday, April 13th 2015, 8:00am

Is there no way to make an entire kit-exclusive weapon class somewhat viable instead of niche-exclusive?

Of course there is.
Why I don't use lasers:

Quoted

The Green Laser Sight you should almost always turn off as it gives away your vacation.


Quotes Corner

Double Ass-Ault Tank Lunch - YouTube

Most fun ever in this game mode.

BF4: Competitive Tank Launching

Rated on explosives used, launch, flight trajectory, style/tricks, and landing.

Shitgun: Whoops did I spell that wrong? Nah, I don't believe so.

Anyone got any ideas about what the UGL Rail on the L86 is for? (13/04 Patch notes.)

XM25 can't mount, can it? Looking forward to my Underslung Ammo box!

Is there any way for anyone that doesn't have mod powers to know what the IE on 360 thread is? I feel so left out...

Nope. Deleted so only mods can see the contents. It has some... interesting stuff there... *squints @Riesig <.< *

*Nick 30075's Application for Moderatorship follows:*

HURR DURR I IS GOOD MOD GIB IE ON 360

My application would be better.
"Totally not Tapatalk only. Pls gib pwor"

mmacola

Console Testing Bro

(137)

Posts: 234

Date of registration
: Nov 23rd 2012

Platform: PS3

Location: Brazil

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

1,523

Monday, April 13th 2015, 8:25am

Is there no way to make an entire kit-exclusive weapon class somewhat viable instead of niche-exclusive?

Of course there is.

So, make them long range only and nigh-unusable at close range? Sounds like niche-exclusive to me.

An example of a niche weapon that is viable at other ranges is the BF3 AS-VAL. 0 spread when not moving, always silenced and 18,4 min damage.Considering 2x headshot multiplier, three taps at any range and you have a dead enemy. Certainly something different from other PDWs. But at closer ranges, if you ran into an enemy, you still had a 900rpm 5hk weapon ready. Note that this weapon was all-class, which should be generally weaker than a kit-exclusive weapon.

Could you imagine how snipers that ptfo (try to defend flags for example) would behave if their 1hk range was only after say, 150m? Unlike any weapon where they could get some cover to stop a barrage of enemies, they'd be forced to push back. Result: Flag lays there empty ready for the enemy to take.

It simply doesn't matter where you have to hit a soldier for him to die. If you miss the first shot, the guy will have an entire second to run to cover, zig-zag around, etc. Some times even crouching or going prone will save him. If you want to buff SRs, you first need to increase their muzzle velocity; save damage changes for later.

Posts: 3,674

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

  • Send private message

1,524

Monday, April 13th 2015, 8:31am

You mean Sniper Rifles would be effective for sniping, while playing aggressively would require a Shotgun/Carbine/DMR? Nah, let's not reward people for selecting and using their tools properly.
Who Enjoys, Wins

Posts: 338

Date of registration
: Jan 31st 2014

Platform: PC

Location: NZ

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

1,525

Monday, April 13th 2015, 9:32am

Instead of reversed damage model (which is a bit extreme), I'd prefer more if sniper rifles did a flat 80 damage at all ranges. Maybe 70 for the fast-firing ones.

Something like M82 50cal, but not with a such a stupid damage model made by some fucking retard on meth. Sorry got carried away there.

Basically no damage drop-off...a sniper bullet would always hurt like hell and leave you badly wounded (or finish you off).

mmacola

Console Testing Bro

(137)

Posts: 234

Date of registration
: Nov 23rd 2012

Platform: PS3

Location: Brazil

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

1,526

Monday, April 13th 2015, 9:33am

You mean Sniper Rifles would be effective for sniping, while playing aggressively would require a Shotgun/Carbine/DMR? Nah, let's not reward people for selecting and using their tools properly.

One time you're saying they're too good at close range; they need to be nerfed in that regard.

Next you say they aren't that good - there are other choices - along with saying I should not use it. Why should I play by how you think? It's not like I'm exploiting anything (especially now with cte quickscope nerf)

The game does reward people for using the right gadget/ammo choice/weapon. That is excellent, and IMO how the game must work. It doesn't need to punish the wrong choice - the wrong choice itself is the punish. The famous "oh man wish I had C4 but I had the UCAV selected" and similar.

EDIT: Added and removed some stuff again

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "mmacola" (Apr 13th 2015, 9:45am)


Posts: 3,674

Date of registration
: Mar 19th 2014

Platform: Xbox One

Location: Canada

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 16

  • Send private message

1,527

Monday, April 13th 2015, 10:03am

Instead of reversed damage model (which is a bit extreme), I'd prefer more if sniper rifles did a flat 80 damage at all ranges. Maybe 70 for the fast-firing ones.

Something like M82 50cal, but not with a such a stupid damage model made by some fucking retard on meth. Sorry got carried away there.

Basically no damage drop-off...a sniper bullet would always hurt like hell and leave you badly wounded (or finish you off).


Yeah, 2HK at all ranges would be my preferred damage model; OHK body shots at range would be too much, I'd rather buff their velocities. Shameless damage model promotion again :D
Who Enjoys, Wins

NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(10,325)

  • "NoctyrneSAGA" started this thread

Posts: 7,288

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

1,528

Monday, April 13th 2015, 10:23am

Instead of reversed damage model (which is a bit extreme), I'd prefer more if sniper rifles did a flat 80 damage at all ranges. Maybe 70 for the fast-firing ones.

Something like M82 50cal, but not with a such a stupid damage model made by some fucking retard on meth. Sorry got carried away there.

Basically no damage drop-off...a sniper bullet would always hurt like hell and leave you badly wounded (or finish you off).

If the damage model was 59-80 on the other hand...

That accomplishes absolutely nothing.


I support this idea entirely. The only real argument against it is that it will make more people want to bush wookie. But hell, if bush wookies become actually useful, then why is that a problem?


Sniper Rifles relying on a headshot OHK or otherwise being a 2 shot to the body is a problem.

DMRs kill faster than the Bolt Actions because of that. Sure they don't have the accuracy anymore, but is engaging a sniper at 500m really going to amount to much? No, 150m is probably the maximum distance you will ever see in objective play and the DMR accomplishes that admirably. They have sufficient accuracy for that type of engagement and bring extra firepower to boot. And headshots aren't required.

You could ignore Snipers because their weapon sucks at the job they're meant to do. Giving them an OHK to the chest is not drastic at all when you consider that Recons are often laughed at for being utterly useless to the team. If they're going to be that poor at killing, might as well make the player operate a SUAV, MAV, and SOFLAM the entire time.

As stated in the thread, bush wookies will be bush wookies no matter what you do. Might as well make them useful.




Furthermore, a flat 70 or 80 damage model completely screws over the Hardcore mode. While it is not the main focus of the game, it is still something that must be considered.

Giving every sniper 70 or 80 damage with no drop off would make them perfect weapons. An OHK, perfect accuracy, all range weapon. Fair and balanced.




Besides, I like the M82A3 and AMR-2. Why? Because they can actually get shit done.

A weapon designed for long range combat should not have to rely on someone else to help get its job done.

It is the same as when someone stated that the MAA was not underpowered because Stealth Jets could help out. This entire line of reasoning is wrong.

How can you call an MAA an MAA if it requires the assistance of another vehicle class to help it fulfill its responsibility?

When you're designing something, it actually needs to be able to do what it was designed to do. Effectively.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Apr 13th 2015, 10:30am)


ToTheSun!

Be Creative.

(5,050)

Posts: 7,811

Date of registration
: Mar 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Portugal

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

1,529

Monday, April 13th 2015, 10:25am

Yeah, 2HK at all ranges would be my preferred damage model; OHK body shots at range would be too much, I'd rather buff their velocities. Shameless damage model promotion again :D

"Infinite" is slightly misleading, though.

Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

(1,327)

Posts: 1,531

Date of registration
: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

1,530

Monday, April 13th 2015, 10:30am

Yeah, 2HK at all ranges would be my preferred damage model; OHK body shots at range would be too much, I'd rather buff their velocities. Shameless damage model promotion again

What exactly is this?
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.