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VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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91

Monday, August 11th 2014, 12:06pm

Anyone else think it's a little ironic that you need to do squad based things to upgrade your perk tree which only benefits you?
I know they said they changed it from bf3 because everyone ran ammo or duplicate perks, but if people are too stupid to switch that, that's their fault isn't it? I always switched to something else if I had ammo, explosives and flak on in my squad.

Maybe the t4 perk should be squad wide or something.


That is what I always said. BF3 perks were such a basic asset of teamplay, while now it is just a personal thing. And a full squad running different perks was a huge benefit over a squad only running 1 or two perks. Now you do no know what the others in your squad are aiming for, and can not adjust accordingly. Plus the perk system is not really straightforward, and most importantly utterly broken. It is often better to aim for something transparent and easier to understand than adding a totally complex feature, that involves a whole lot of difficulties.


@NoctyrneSaga Well of course they are not going to remove anything. Still I argue that sometimes things are so broken that the time you would need to fix it is not really worth it but people on the outside can clearly see that creating something new that works easier and better is the optimal solution.

C0llis

Up and down. Bounce all around

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92

Monday, August 11th 2014, 1:24pm

Anyone else think it's a little ironic that you need to do squad based things to upgrade your perk tree which only benefits you?
I know they said they changed it from bf3 because everyone ran ammo or duplicate perks, but if people are too stupid to switch that, that's their fault isn't it? I always switched to something else if I had ammo, explosives and flak on in my squad.

Maybe the t4 perk should be squad wide or something.
They should just have prevented perk stacking and be done with it.

That, and they should have kept the "broad" perks from BF3, like "explosives" giving extra ammo to all explosive weapons (sans grenades), instead of the current mess where 3 perks are needed to get extra mines and RPGs for engineer.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

Frosty

Staying frosty.

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93

Monday, August 11th 2014, 2:03pm

Anyone else think it's a little ironic that you need to do squad based things to upgrade your perk tree which only benefits you?
It doesn't benefit "only you" since everyone in the squad is sharing the same progress bar. The major change from BF3 is that everyone can choose the benefits that are most useful to them individually. I consider that an improvement.

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94

Monday, August 11th 2014, 2:24pm

It doesn't benefit "only you" since everyone in the squad is sharing the same progress bar. The major change from BF3 is that everyone can choose the benefits that are most useful to them individually. I consider that an improvement.


Agreed.

As for Body Armour, they need to make it only affect bolt actions and shotgun slugs, they only two things it exists to counter, and nothing else. They should also swap Defensive with Offensive, making Offensive default. Problem solved.
Who Enjoys, Wins

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95

Monday, August 11th 2014, 2:32pm

Anyone else think it's a little ironic that you need to do squad based things to upgrade your perk tree which only benefits you?
It doesn't benefit "only you" since everyone in the squad is sharing the same progress bar. The major change from BF3 is that everyone can choose the benefits that are most useful to them individually. I consider that an improvement.
Afaik, the progress is individual. The only thing shared is when you drop a level cause everyone on your squad died. Squad perks still work in a mysterious way, sometimes the bar won't show up at all, sometimes it's empty but all perks are active. I suspect it's just a UI related bug but it's still annoying. At least they fixed perks not working after the first round..
This is where I'm coming from: Clicky

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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Monday, August 11th 2014, 3:04pm

Anyone else think it's a little ironic that you need to do squad based things to upgrade your perk tree which only benefits you?
It doesn't benefit "only you" since everyone in the squad is sharing the same progress bar. The major change from BF3 is that everyone can choose the benefits that are most useful to them individually. I consider that an improvement.
Afaik, the progress is individual. The only thing shared is when you drop a level cause everyone on your squad died. Squad perks still work in a mysterious way, sometimes the bar won't show up at all, sometimes it's empty but all perks are active. I suspect it's just a UI related bug but it's still annoying. At least they fixed perks not working after the first round..

Anyone else think it's a little ironic that you need to do squad based things to upgrade your perk tree which only benefits you?
It doesn't benefit "only you" since everyone in the squad is sharing the same progress bar. The major change from BF3 is that everyone can choose the benefits that are most useful to them individually. I consider that an improvement.


That was the case with the BF3 perk system as well. You picked what was good for you but it had an additional value for everybody on the squad. Now you pick what is good for you only and others are left out, you only accumulate the persk through squad actions then, but as it is rather coincidental and the basic perks are usually the ones you would want anyway, it is basically just an egoistic feature.

Also as C0llis said the whole perks are counterintuitive because you need two or three different ones to accumulate the perks that benefit you. In my book they should, if we can not pick them ourselves, be more general, as said explosives grant you more ammo for RPGs, Mines, Clays, C4. A grenade perk grants more grenades and more ammo for the M320 and XM25, and so forth. A general anti- and more suppression perk would be just as wise. On the whole it would just be wiser to let everybody be able to pick their favourite perks for themselves so that you can really suit your playstyle.

Thumbs up for C0llis therefore. :)

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97

Monday, August 11th 2014, 6:45pm

...What I find is severely lacking in terms of teamplay is Commander to Squad communication and vice versa. Especially from squad to commander there is none really...


This is why I wish they would implement a voice system similar to the one in MAG. For those of you who haven't played it, in the largest game mode you had 3 leadership positions, Squad leader, Platoon leader and Officer in Command. Squad leads could obviously talk to their squad but by opening a command rose they could switch to Officer Chat. This gave them voice chat to the other Sl, PL and OIC. Platoon leaders had a similar deal but they could also address their entire platoon at once. The OIC had the option to talk in squad, with the officers, and most importantly, to EVERY person on the team at once. This was a MASSIVE boon in trying to get the blueberries to do what you needed them to do. in the smaller games where there was no OIC, the PL ha the option to talk to every person on their team (because there was only one platoon per side).

In the case of BF4, I would love to see the ability for the Squad Leaders to talk to each other and to the commander whenever they needed to figure out what to push next or who was closest to fall back and recap a letter in the back field. In case of the commander, being able to talk to every one at once and give them status updates, let them know that they're doing a good job, or to stop camping at C and for somebody to PLEASE go cover the fucking snow lane. (looking at you Op Locker). In MAG they also had a way to vote to demote whoever was in charge if they were just being an annoying asshat and doing nothing but spewing shit from their mouths and just fucking the game up for everyone else.

I believe that this could be the single greatest boon to teamwork that Dice could do. Being able to talk to everyone would give the commander a broader roll then just sit there spamming UAV over the hotspot and suggesting orders to squad leaders (which are usually ignored anyway). You could actually coordinate the team and have people in different squads working together and actually....you know....COMMAND THE FUCKING TEAM. I cannot tell you how many times our little squad of 4 or so people would bang our heads against the wall until one of us got platoon leader and then all of a sudden, once we started organizing the blueberries (everyone push this letter, ok, now split up, half go left, half go right etc) we stomped the enemy and came back from what seemed un-winable odds.


TL;DR - Allow squad leaders to talk to each other and allow the commander to address every person on the team at once.
Greatest insult I've ever read

My Lord, I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offense against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fir which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornement for a human face. Is it possible that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat? -Mandorallen

Frosty

Staying frosty.

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98

Monday, August 11th 2014, 9:31pm

TL;DR - Allow squad leaders to talk to each other and allow the commander to address every person on the team at once.
It won't make any difference. What would change if all the squadleaders and the commander could properly talk to each other? Nothing, because they have nearly no influence on the other players' behaviour.

The sad truth is, the whole squad spawning mechanic has made squad leaders irrelevant. I remember the times in BF2/BF2142 where squads gathered around their squad leader and actively tried keeping him alive because he as the squad's spawn point was just such a vital asset when attacking or defending objectives. That said, it was frustrating to have an incompetent squad leader, but it can't be helped.

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99

Monday, August 11th 2014, 9:36pm

TL;DR - Allow squad leaders to talk to each other and allow the commander to address every person on the team at once.
It won't make any difference. What would change if all the squadleaders and the commander could properly talk to each other? Nothing, because they have nearly no influence on the other players' behaviour.

The sad truth is, the whole squad spawning mechanic has made squad leaders irrelevant. I remember the times in BF2/BF2142 where squads gathered around their squad leader and actively tried keeping him alive because he as the squad's spawn point was just such a vital asset when attacking or defending objectives. That said, it was frustrating to have an incompetent squad leader, but it can't be helped.


Hardcore says hi, and I assume it will be Squad Leader spawn in Classic too.
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100

Monday, August 11th 2014, 9:42pm

TL;DR - Allow squad leaders to talk to each other and allow the commander to address every person on the team at once.
It won't make any difference. What would change if all the squadleaders and the commander could properly talk to each other? Nothing, because they have nearly no influence on the other players' behaviour.

The sad truth is, the whole squad spawning mechanic has made squad leaders irrelevant. I remember the times in BF2/BF2142 where squads gathered around their squad leader and actively tried keeping him alive because he as the squad's spawn point was just such a vital asset when attacking or defending objectives. That said, it was frustrating to have an incompetent squad leader, but it can't be helped.


Im not saying it would be some sort of miracle cure-all, just that if squads had even an inkling of what the others were doing it could help everyone make better decisions. Shit, even if you ran into just ONE other semi-organized squad those two squads could get a lot more shit done then either of them trying to do their best by themselves. And you underestimate the power of one voice being able to tell every member of the team whats going down. You could even add in a mute option (not sure if there is one already) for the bush wookies that are happy sitting off on a hill somewhere.

All im saying is that more options for communication and organization is never a bad thing
Greatest insult I've ever read

My Lord, I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offense against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fir which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornement for a human face. Is it possible that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat? -Mandorallen