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Nick 30075

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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 2:40am

First Shot Recoil, Angled Grip, and Accuracy

Updates:
7/7 Posted
7/8 MB vs. HB added

Hooray, about time, my first BF4 tl;dr post! I had a conversation in a server today about first shot multipliers and why the Angled grip was bad on the PKP/M60/M240B if you're going to be firing more than 2 shots at a given time and decided to write it all up.

Human reflexes are generally not fast enough to compensate for recoil on a shot-by-shot basis. As such, FSM cannot be perfectly compensated for. This leads to many people treating the Angled Grip as an ease-of-use attachment with no accuracy benefit to the gun. That's not the case. At all.

Most people compensate for recoil in a linear fashion (pull down X degrees/second) though it is possible to do curved patterns (pull down sqrt(X) degrees/second). So, for a three-round burst, you can either pick for the first/second shots to connect or the first/third. This is because recoil compensation appears to be a line between two points whereas weapon recoil is composed of two lines at an angle to one another (see the graphs below if you can't visualize; you'll understand what I mean). Barring weapons with a 1.0x FSM, the bent line of the recoil graph and the straight line of the compensation graph can only meet at two points. For a five round burst, you can pick for shot pairs 12, 13, 14, or 15 to be at the exact location of your gun, for the compensation up to that point to exactly match how much the gun has recoiled.

These charts were made to illustrate a point; I don't have a catalog for every weapon and I'd rather not make one. As a general rule of thumb, for guns with almost exactly a 1.0x FSM, recoil compensation should match the gun recoil to begin with. For guns with a FSM of less than 1.0x, see the M240B chart. For guns with a FSM of greater than 1.0x, see the M416 chart. There are no guns with an FSM of greater than 1.0x that is reduced to less than 1.0x with Angled Grip.

For the 3-round burst charts, the error is the amount you miss by with the shot that you can't cherrypick to hit. For the 5-round burst case error was calculated as the average difference in vertical displacement of the compensated recoil compared to the base line.
In all plots below, blue is the recoil pattern of the gun itself. Red is the linear compensation pattern.

Warning: large images

M416


No AFG


AFG



Angled Foregrip is more accurate; note how much closer to the actual recoil of the weapon the recoil compensation can be. AFG is not just easier to use. Note that the difference in optimal vertical placement is .12 with AFG; the Stubby Grip doesn't refund you nearly that much in spread in a 3-round burst! Aim to connect with shots 1 and 3.


M240B


No AFG


AFG



Angled Foregrip is actually less accurate. This indicates that the optimal FSM is "as close to 1 as possible" rather than "as low as possible." Aim to connect with shots 1 and 3.


M416, 5 rounds


No AFG


AFG



Note how bad ignoring FSM is for weapon accuracy. Don't compensate for shots 1 and 2; in-game experience should also encourage this.


Attachments: Heavy Barrel and Muzzle Brake


HBar




The gun recoils more, exactly what I would have expected. It does decrease your accuracy, but the HBar's spread bonus is more significant than the FSM recoil-induced accuracy penalty. The benefit of HBar from AFG is quite noticeable. HBar definitely wants an Angled Grip.


MB




The Muzzle Brake has a nonzero impact on weapon accuracy when coupled with a nonzero FSM in a vacuum. This is completely taken away by the spread increase penalty (not depicted in charts). Muzzle Brake is worse for the gun, accuracy-wise, than a blank attachment slot due to the spread increase penalty. Note also that the AFG doesn't provide nearly as strong a benefit as it does in the HBar case.


The Muzzle Brake has a slight bonus in FSM-induced accuracy which is immediately ruined by its spread penalty. Just don't use MB; if you do, the AFG doesn't provide much of an accuracy benefit, I'd go for a Stubby. The HBar experiences a decrease in FSM-induced accuracy which is unfortunate but the accuracy bonus will end up being a lot stronger so don't worry about it. HBar wants an Angled grip more than any other attachment in that slot.


Conclusions:
Due to human impossibility in recoil compensation, the Angled Grip actually increases your accuracy. This is because the use of the Angled grip lets your compensation pattern (assumed linear) be as close to the actual aim point of the gun as possible.

If your gun has a FSM of 1.0x, this effect (obviously) goes away (though reducing the FSM to 1.0x is a positive). For the few guns with a FSM of less than 1.0x, the Angled Foregrip actually reduces your accuracy. These effects come out in the math, it's not just an ease-of-use thing. Note that for semiautomatic fire, 2-round bursts, or guns with a FSM of 1.0x, compensation patterns can exactly match each shot and thus this effect disappears. As a general trend, the accuracy increase is stronger the more from 1 your FSM is (not much surprise there).

AFG is at its best on guns with HBar and at its least effective on guns with Muzzle Brake.

For the M416 and most of the random guns I messed with, compensation for shots 1 and 4 of the 5-round burst was the most accurate; however, that motion is probably impossible for most (it probably is for me) since you have to single out shots 1 and 4 from experience and know the recoil compensation "line" that goes through them.


tl;dr:
AFG increases accuracy if your gun's FSM is greater than 1 and decreases it if your gun's FSM is 1.0x or less; the ideal FSM is as close to 1.0x as possible, NOT less than 1.0x (for accuracy, not ease-of-use). This effect is rather small, though it is larger than the effect of the Stubby grip when you're firing bursts.


And for those who tl;dr'd the tl;dr:
Angled grip is good for burst-fire. Who knew?
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This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "Nick 30075" (Jul 8th 2014, 6:23pm)


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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 3:29am

Note that for semiautomatic fire, 2-round bursts, or guns with a FSM of 1.0x, compensation patterns can exactly match each shot and thus this effect disappears.

And for those who tl;dr'd the tl;dr:
Angled grip is good for burst-fire. Who knew?


What's the minimum burst length for AF to be effective? 3 rounds?
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Nick 30075

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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 3:33am

Note that for semiautomatic fire, 2-round bursts, or guns with a FSM of 1.0x, compensation patterns can exactly match each shot and thus this effect disappears.

And for those who tl;dr'd the tl;dr:
Angled grip is good for burst-fire. Who knew?


What's the minimum burst length for AF to be effective? 3 rounds?

To have an effect on accuracy, 3 rounds, unless the FSM is 1.0x.
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23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Okay
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm stabbing everyone
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Bye guys
23:44 Nick: *flips table*
23:44 Legion: Bye, happy stabbing
23:44 *** Lt_Col_Jesus quit (Quit: off to murder the public at large).

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10:41 Dice: Well that would be unfortunate, I was just getting used to him being dead.

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23:58 Nick: AS A BIIIIRD NOW
23:58 Failure117: FREEE OF NICK'S WORM RAPE

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ViperFTW: I WANT TO SWAT IT WITH MY COMICLY LARGE SWORD
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ViperFTW: FUUUUCKING SOUNDTRACK :DDDD
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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 11:45am

Sadly Sym didn't provide us the attachments for the weapons chart ... (BF4 Weapon charts (Damage, accuracy, etc.) | Symthic)
but as it seems, most AR benefits from AG if you wish some accuracy at mid-long ranges.

I use AFG+Comp of everything now (well, at least last time I played)
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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 11:57am

the ideal FSM is as close to 1.0x as possible, NOT less than 1.0x (for accuracy, not ease-of-use). This effect is rather small, though it is larger than the effect of the Stubby grip when you're firing bursts.


So for accuracy, is HBar+Stubby better than HBar+Angled for an MG4? Also, how would no underbarrel attachments do (or a bipod, to be precise, since it won't affect my standing accuracy).



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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 12:57pm

Thank you for making this thread, Nick. It seems it takes a properly written wall of text to convince people of what i've been saying since BF4's release.

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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 1:58pm

A good read and I'm honestly not surprised at the outcome, AFG and tap fire in this game is so strong. Since the stubby grip benefits LMGs so much thanks to the reduction in max spread I've never thought to use the AFG on them, but those results were interesting and unexpected.

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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 2:01pm

In all plots below, blue is the recoil pattern of the gun itself. Red is the linear compensation pattern.


how come you have more recoil when compensating, than the normal recoil of the gun, for example for M416, 12, no AFG, compensation round 2 has 0.704 recoil and round three double that, wheras for normal recoil round 3 has only 1.024 recoil
what im saying is that you can only have so much recoil, if you are compensating you should have less, never more, therefore the red line should always be on par or below the blue line
otherwise I fully agree with you, there's no way you can compensate for FSM > 1 especially on things like AEK, ACE23 etc...
I put an angled grip on the ACW-R the other week where previously I ran ergo, boom, ttk went down by like 50% lol
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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 4:52pm

I do prefer the AG even when a weapon has a low FSM to begin with.

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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 5:04pm

I do prefer the AG even when a weapon has a low FSM to begin with.

That's when the AG gives you the least benefit, speaking in absolute numbers. That's when its use is harder to justify.

The point of this thread is that the closer the FSM gravitates towards 1, the better. If a gun has 3x FSM, but you can turn it into a 2x, why wouldn't you?