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  • "KMRblue1027" started this thread

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: Jan 15th 2014

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Tuesday, February 18th 2014, 7:20am

Passive Radar and Lock-On Balance

I know I'm probably in the minority opinion here that I think the current air vs ground balance is actually well done in BF4 in its current state, but it seems to me that the current crop of lock-on missiles strongly favors the fire and forget types (Stringer, heatseakers, active radar, ect.) while the IGLA and Passive Radar kinda are left to sorta just exist. They are supposed to have a range buff in comparison to their counterparts but instead they can be simply outrun while a Stinger or heatseaker will follow you well outside an IGLA's range. Ultimately this leaves them fairly useless in the grand scheme of things and I've been trying to fugue out how to balance them. Maybe a speed buff while the other types get range nerfs?

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Tuesday, February 18th 2014, 7:32am

I personally would have them function as "sniper" missiles where their range justifies holding the lock, like 1000+m. Their drawback would be the time it takes for the missile to get to its target, so that it would be easily defeated by CM's given its travel speed.

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Tuesday, February 18th 2014, 7:23pm

The IGLA was king on certain maps before they changed the ability to relock while firing a second missile (aka the wambo combo). you could simply fire the first, and if they flared just reload and fire the second with both hitting. The downfall was that you were a sitting duck for ~10 seconds. Now that this is not possible they definitely need a rebalance to make the IGLA a viable choice over the Stinger. I would actually like to see the Stinger lock time increased and a possible minor damage buff for the IGLA.

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Thursday, February 27th 2014, 11:46pm

i think the sniper missile idea has a lot of merit for the passive radar/igla, especially if it can still regain locks after flaring. this is also more in line with how these weapons tend to work in actual engagements (thinking here of the sparrow-type AIM missiles specifically). either that or a pretty big damage buff for the passive weapons seems in line. i'd be happy with both, really; it'd be nice to have an air-to-air missile that could actually do something against another plane for once.

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Friday, February 28th 2014, 12:05am

The IGLA does have slight higher range and faster time to target overall. The safest way to rebalance these two would be to make the stinger deal less damage. Instead of 225, it should probably be lowered to 150. That would up its number of required missiles for a disable and destroy on helicopters (cept the transport) and jets from 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 respectively.

Another option is reducing the missile acceleration, speed and min turn radius so that it can be dodged more easily. There was a post about rebalancing AA missiles as a whole by Labby which addressed the missile flight aspects in more detail but I don't have it handy
This is where I'm coming from: Clicky

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Monday, April 4th 2016, 5:35am

With the current balance the Passive Radar Missile is an effective weapon. Though it's capabilities are not often understood or exploited. Even by good pilots.

Passive Radar can be equipped on Stealth Jet and MAA. It is also the only AA option available to the Attack Boat. The advantage of this missile lies in it's capability to release missile prior to acquiring lock. The advantage here is that you can release your missiles at an incoming air target, without any lock tone alerting your opponent. Then, as the missiles are getting close to your target, you aquire lock, and your missiles will instantly veer into the target. With correct timing, if your target doesn't pre-emptively ECM, or Flare, they will have milliseconds to react.

The reason why this catches pilots off guard is that you are giving them an acquiring tone. Which most pilots associate with heat seeker type missiles. They expect the missile to be released after lock. Little do they realise that your missiles have already been released, and they are in imminent danger... So they are expecting acquiring tone, locked tone, and then critical tone - and most pilots only flare after critical tone. Because, to do otherwise would result in a full missile hit after their countermeasures are exhausted.

But with a Passive Radar, released prior to lock, the tone goes straight from acquiring tone, to critical tone. With missile impact immediately after (when properly timed). The correct time to deploy countermeasures is during the acquiring lock tone. Which forces pilots to flare earlier, and makes them more vulnerable. Even if they do flare, after lock, the Passive Radar when locked move at such high velocity that there is high probability of a "dumb-fire hit".

With a typical rate of closure on a fairly static target (such as a Helicopter) the correct release timing is at 830 distance. Lock begins acquiring at 650 distance when you should start throttling back, and is acquired at 600 or 550. This will usually give an outright kill at 600 distance, or a 78 HP heavy mobility hit. Which gives plenty of air time to finish the target with a gun attack. Being able to make kills at 600 distance, most players can't even see you - and for those with Air Radar, you will only be appearing on screen briefly. Most pilots can't effectively react in this time.

For other targets with higher rates of closer missile release should happen at a distance of 960. When you are on the tail of a jet at full speed, and in pursuit with afterburner. I would recommend missile release at about 700 distance, then switching to guns (so you don't alert your opponent). Then switch to missile lock when you can see that the missiles are near your target.

I have some experience with using Passive Radar. These things are lethal now. The advantage of Passive over Active is that, when used properly, they can give less critical tone time, and hit faster.

This post has been edited 5 times, last edit by "Benjamin" (Apr 4th 2016, 5:55am)

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Monday, April 4th 2016, 7:02am

I have some experience with using Passive Radar. These things are lethal now. The advantage of Passive over Active is that, when used properly, they can give less critical tone time, and hit faster.
This is precisely why I switched from using Heatseekers/Active radar to Passive Radar. In a MAA it makes you a static target for a short period of time, especially when timing the launch properly. It also increases the airborne area in which the MAA can effectively control. Heck, you can fire the missiles above helicopters, drive a little, lock on and watch as you get the mobility kill. It's immensely gratifying.
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Monday, April 4th 2016, 7:14am

While that was very ontopic and well written, avoid posting on topics that have been inactive for few months, let alone over a year. (Rule 11)

Topic locked.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included