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NoctyrneSAGA

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Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 10:17pm

Another World Famous Detective Takes a Crack at the "Netcode"



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Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 11:00pm

these guy evidently never heard of clientside prediction, which if done properly, invalidates most of his concerns.

also: he wants the "tickrate" to be 60 Hz. lulz. not gonna happen.

NoctyrneSAGA

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Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 11:04pm

also: he wants the "tickrate" to be 60 Hz. lulz. not gonna happen.


I laughed SO HARD when I heard that. He was apparently so shocked by /u/sliced_lime's statement of "bang for the buck" he forgot all about it. The math here is very simple

Increase the send rate by a factor of 6, reduce the latency by 50%. SO EFFICIENT! WHY HASN'T DICE DONE THIS YET?!
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Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 11:11pm

He doesn't show any "fixes" to improve the "netcode" issues, and apart from his continous "increase the tickrate" does quite a good job of explaining and showing the issues in the actual game.

Just my 2 cents tho.
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Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 11:28pm

he's also wrong about just how much "delay" is there with the image you see on screen.

video games, by their very nature, are delayed by around 5 frames. the mechanics of the gameloop (input->update->draw) means that you are always seeing the results from your PREVIOUS update, which translates to a 1 frame delay. then there are the necessary buffering that needs to occur for your video card to give you a coherent frame. throw on vsync and/or triple buffering and you're left with quite a delay on screen, even BEFORE you get into networking.

then there's the reality of networking. overhead from UDP packets and the built in packet metering built into the client/server means that there's a set overhead that must be sent in addition to data. in order to crank up the tickrate, you basically need to reduce the amount of useful data sent with each packet, which means that the overhead-to-data ratio becomes worse, which means that the total amount of data sent balloons out of control. this is even more dramatic for a game like BF4, where the server/clients has to synchronize so many things. cranking the tickrate to 60 Hz, even if everybody's internet connection can handle it, would probably cause most routers to have buffer overflows, and your own router will start throwing away packets because it simply don't have the processing power and RAM to deal with all that data.

modern games (and especially BF4) mitigates a lot of the latency with clientside prediction. basically, your client isn't displaying what the server is sending it, but is actually predicting what the server will send many frames later, based on what's been sent before. in effect, your client is ALWAYS in the past, and ALWAYS predicting the future. i've said before that client/server networking programming is a lesson on time traveling. this is why.

the presence of clientside prediction also makes all of these "best case" testing invalid. clientside prediction can only function if there's a constant stream of useful data being sent to it. the more data the client receives, the better it can predict the future (to its perspective. to our perspective, it is the present). these "best case" scenarios effectively denies the client to do any prediction, and thus forcing it to display what's actually being sent.

NoctyrneSAGA

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Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 11:33pm

@tehmoriz

You mind if I use this as a response?
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Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 11:37pm

all i want is it to be as stable and perform the same as bf3 at the end of bf3 life span there was nothing wrong with that and yes game is comin along but needs more
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Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 11:42pm

@tehmoriz

You mind if I use this as a response?


if you like. though keep in mind that i've probably made a few too many generalizations. network programming isn't my forte, and if i have the choice, i wouldn't touch this shit with a 10 foot pole.

as for BF4 and its network shenanigans, i'm pretty confident to say that most of it results from a combination of clientside prediction errors, and server packet prioritization/rejection.

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Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 11:44pm

also: he wants the "tickrate" to be 60 Hz. lulz. not gonna happen.


I laughed SO HARD when I heard that. He was apparently so shocked by /u/sliced_lime's statement of "bang for the buck" he forgot all about it. The math here is very simple

Increase the send rate by a factor of 6, reduce the latency by 50%. SO EFFICIENT! WHY HASN'T DICE DONE THIS YET?!

Could you explain this further. Would be neat cuz i have no idea of that calculation. As far as i see it an effective tickrate of 10 means that ontop of sending and processing information there is a delay that can UP TO 100 ms on the client side. and up to another 100 ms on the serverside (server tickrate is 30 ms but it can send out useless information twice, sicne it didnt get updated by the client yet. So what it seems to be there is 200 ms built in delay at WORST, depending on when what packets are actually sent and recieved.

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Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 11:54pm

Could you explain this further.


the video maker himself estimated that increasing the tickrate to 60Hz would reduce a 166 ms delay down to around 84 ms, or a 50% improvement. it's a bit later in the video.