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Posts: 199

Date of registration
: Nov 12th 2013

Platform: PC

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21

Tuesday, March 4th 2014, 1:38am

I was surprised how low the SAR-21 on the headshot chart; maybe it doesn't kick the AK-12 out of the park after all.

Overall, it looks like the CBJ-MS, PP-2000, U-100, G36, and Type 95 fam need some love in order to balance out the classes a bit. The CBJ could really use 14.5 end dmg and less h recoil...
however you slice it, the SAR-21 has completely terrible horizontal recoil compared to the AK series guns (.4 total vs. .25); add in 150 more RPM and provided you can keep the (entirely manageable) vertical recoil under control then the AK-12 really is the most accurate of the assault rifles. People been sleeping on that gun, it seems like.

i agree with most of the needs love list, though i'd definitely add the M16A4, the SAR-21 and the CZ-805 in the assault rifles; just a bit of horizontal recoil taken off would make them all much better. and somebody really needs to do something about the poor A-91, that thing was a lot of fun in BF3 but now it's pretty much the most pointless gun in the game. or at least fighting the RPK-74 for that amazing honor.

it's a shame that DICE has explicitly said "lolz no" to buffing the G36C; it's a fav gun but it's completely terrible. if it at least had 750 rpm it'd at least be a competitive option for people with less-than-perfect recoil control, but as it is the AKU-12 stomps it in the nuts and posts the video to WorldStarHipHop.

Posts: 4,259

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: Apr 6th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: From the heart of Europe.

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22

Tuesday, March 4th 2014, 4:40am

SAR-21 is fine as is (less recoil if it gets bullpup would be good, but not with 0.2 minspread), CZ-805 is fine, Type-95B-1 is fine, PP-2000 is fine, U-100 is fine...
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TLDR -
Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"

Posts: 17

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: Jan 20th 2014

Platform: PS4

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23

Tuesday, March 4th 2014, 8:17am

Awesome stuff. Any chance u can do a Hardcore version?

Posts: 482

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: Feb 17th 2014

Platform: 360

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24

Tuesday, March 4th 2014, 8:19pm

it's a shame that DICE has explicitly said "lolz no" to buffing the G36C; it's a fav gun but it's completely terrible. if it at least had 750 rpm it'd at least be a competitive option for people with less-than-perfect recoil control, but as it is the AKU-12 stomps it in the nuts and posts the video to WorldStarHipHop.


Like honestly, WTF Dice!!! I understand no below radar, and 3 shot DMRs, and no 6x DMR scopes and all. I can even sympathize with DICE when everyone yells at them for the broken game; its EAs f*cking fault for trying to make BF4 outsell Ghosts. But the G36? I honestly don't understand? There is no 750 rpm carbine. There is a 620 carbine, a 650 carbine, a 680 carbine, a 700 carbine - but no f*cking 750 carbine. The AK5c feels more manageable, with 50 rpm more. The G36 was even 750 is BF3. Just why won't DICE listen??? I don't even like the G36, it looks ugly imo, but the rpm just bugs me.

Lol,well theres my rant for the day. DICE may eventually give into reason and fix it, especially after everyone stops using it. By the way, if you're a BF3 G36 fan, and you play engi, give the PDW-R a try.

Also, the A-91....

Posts: 199

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: Nov 12th 2013

Platform: PC

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25

Wednesday, March 5th 2014, 4:15am

3VerstsNorth: this might be handled by WoopsyYaya's hit calculator as well, but since you have simulations and the data is hopefully already there is it possible to get an expected hit percentage for headshots in the second and third rounds at a given range? just following up an intuitive explanation here, but it seems like when comparing e.g. AK-12 burst fire vs. ACE 23 microbursting that past a certain range the first rounds in the bursts must be doing most of the heavy lifting, but since the second round is much more accurate from the AK-12 (and the third's not that bad off at .24 spread with a heavy barrel and stubby); i'm guessing that range is around 55m or so judging from the older simulations (since that's where number of rounds fired starts to exceed 4 for most weapons using microbursts).

so the AK-12 burst fire becomes more efficient when 1-p(AK 2nd round hits) * 1-p(AK 3rd round hits) < 1-p(ACE 2nd round hits), and most of the kill scenarios at that range end up looking like:

AK-12: first round hits, second round hits, third misses (240ms cycle time) + 20 ms for total 100ms pause* - first round hits for kill at 260+travel time milliseconds

ACE 23: first round hits, second round misses (144 ms) + 33 ms for total 100ms pause - first round hits, second round misses (321 ms) + 33 ms ms pause - 1st round hits for kill at 354 + travel time milliseconds

averages obviously changed by the times when either gun drills all three or the AK misses the last two in the first and hits the first two in the second , but at least in the first case that should actually be quite comparable in time to kill (160 + travel time for the AK vs. 177 + travel time for the ACE).

mostly just to satisfy my curiosity, but i really think there's an argument to be made that it's never worth going off burst with the AKs, if not many of the burst-capable guns.

*am i misinterpreting the 100ms pause as starting from the firing of the final round in the burst here? i assume this is the case since even the base spread increase from a three-round burst should burn off in 14ms or so (as should the worst-case horizontal recoil from a three-round burst), so there's no point in waiting for a full 100ms from the end of the cycle time of the last round with short bursts like this if vertical recoil is fully compensated.

Posts: 60

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: Jan 20th 2014

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26

Wednesday, March 5th 2014, 6:06am

@Shinryu

Strangely how flinching exactly works would have an impact in this. AK12 can't benefit from the second accurate shot if the 1st shot moves the hit box.

Posts: 288

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: Dec 16th 2013

Platform: PC

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27

Thursday, March 6th 2014, 6:09pm

@3VerstsNorth Ah, thank you! now i get it! Now my only gripe is the color coding. I can't really tell the difference between ultra super green, and slightly less ultra super green, if you know what i mean. Is there a way i can convert this into a more simple greyscale shading for simpler and quicker viewing or something? Though i guess that would make the text hard to read. Could make it white once the colors get more towards the black side.

Posts: 47

Date of registration
: Jan 18th 2014

Platform: PS4

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28

Thursday, March 6th 2014, 6:54pm

There is an option for colorblinds. Its in the options

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: Jan 20th 2014

Platform: PS4

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29

Thursday, March 6th 2014, 9:14pm

I guess thats a NO for a Hardcore chart? I assume the whole perfect cmpensation thing is for PC only. I have pretty high hand eye coordination, but perfect compensation on consoles using analog sticks ain't happening. Its hard enough to do it in the test range much less run n gun in a match.

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: Feb 25th 2012

Platform: PC

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30

Thursday, March 6th 2014, 9:19pm

I guess thats a NO for a Hardcore chart? I assume the whole perfect cmpensation thing is for PC only. I have pretty high hand eye coordination, but perfect compensation on consoles using analog sticks ain't happening. Its hard enough to do it in the test range much less run n gun in a match.

never had problems regarding recoil control back in the days of when i played bf3 and bc2 on ps3...
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stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

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ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


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