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MrT3a

The only man who ever reported his own post!

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11

Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 5:59pm

@3VerstsNorth
Didn't see this ^^ thanks ^^

__/From phone, please excuse errors\__
Stats thingy

Quotes of wisdom (maybe)


I'm a battlefield player, good sir. I don't play metro.

PC is no longer PC master race. It's PC mustard race, because consoles need to ketchup :'D

DICE gave so much into making commander better, but lemmings be lemmings I guess.

As a good guy that don't want to use overly glitched weapons, I'll quit using the MTAR and switch to the ACWR until it's fixed

The world needs more people like you


+1, I think we're all in agreement that more MrT3as would be an awesome thing :love:
Although if that was the case they'd use up so much of the world's awesome that there'd be none left for the rest of us! :D

yes, I know, I'm a big-ass hypocrite

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "MrT3a" (Feb 11th 2014, 6:51pm)


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12

Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 10:05pm

So basically, what little I can decipher from all of this, tells me that there's a reason I like the SCAR-H so much.

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13

Tuesday, February 11th 2014, 10:12pm

So I made a combo chart using the numbers in this thread.
The numbers used are 5m-20m moving hipfire, 25m-50m moving ads, 55m-100m standing ads. Don't have any fancy color coding features, but each color roughly equals 4% of STDEV.
Update: made one for headshots too, colors roughly equal 6% STDEV.
Update 2: one last chart shows with weapons are better for headshots, sorted best to worst, using the same numbers from the combo charts.

The fact that someone has an opinion, doesn't make their opinion a fact. Making just arguments first requires an acknowledgement of intellectual humility, while valid arguments require you to not commit fallacies of logic and rhetoric.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "untamedone" (Feb 12th 2014, 10:14am)


  • "3VerstsNorth" started this thread

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14

Wednesday, February 12th 2014, 1:15pm


AK-12 on burst mode @750rpm? Defo needs more attention dat AK-12 ^^

Yeah, all burst weapons use burst-RoF. Burst-AK-12 is the most effective AR starting from distances of 60 m. But only if 3-shot bursts are considered. I'd guess 2- or even 1-shot bursts with other guns could outshoot AK-12.

[quoto]AEK and ACE have lower TTK than M16A4 at range, shows you how badly it needs a buff, even if AEK is harder to control ;( [/quote]
Yep. M16A4 got the short stick.

Quoted

Can the compensator ever be better than the HB for the AEK? If at long range HB is more accurate, shouldn't it be more accurate at medium ranges too ?

Compensator is useful ...in the statistical sense (!)... in AEK only until 30m, if even there, and the upcoming moving ADS buff will make it even more obsolete. In longer ranges even the first-shot spread is relevant and there HB is good.

Quoted

So.....where is the DMR/sidearm TTK tables? :D

Quoted


Eh :rolleyes: ...let's see when Sym API has the patched DMR stats. I had to create a manual stats entry for the SA guns and doing that for the three of them was enough :).

So basically, what little I can decipher from all of this, tells me that there's a reason I like the SCAR-H so much.

:thumbup:

So I made a combo chart using the numbers in this thread.

Heh, nice! And very illustrative of the strength of ARs.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
"Many bullets help." WoopsyYaya
"most rhetorically legitimate ad hominem 2015" ToTheSun!

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15

Thursday, February 27th 2014, 10:08pm

this is what i get for falling off the earth for a month or so... great work, everybody in the thread here. for what it's worth this seems to agree pretty solidly with my (sadly unpublished) probabalistic analyses that the AEK/SCAR-H/AK-12 are the holy trinity of assault weapons. i am pleasantly surprised to see my intuition about the M4 confirmed by the numbers as well, though shame about the M16A4. and the F2000, for that matter...

so, roughly speaking it seems like the optimal gun selections are:

Assault: AEK/SCAR-H/AK-12, roughly corresponding to expecting short/medium/long-range engagements
Support: MG4/M240B/PKP/M60, again for short/medium/longish ranges, but these seem to all be fairly well-baleanced with one another.
Carbine: M4/ACE 53/AKU-12, with maybe an honorable mention for the ACW-R as a close range chainsaw.
PDW: AS VAL or don't even bother, apparently.

3VerstsNorth: apologies if these simulations came up in a different thread already, but i still think it'd be nice to see this with a dynamic aimpoint if that's possible; if you can center the first shot on the head and then move the aimpoint down so that the top of the spread increase cone intersects the top of the head hitbox this optimizes the chances of the subsequent rounds hitting the head or body as best as possible and should create the absolute fastest possible time to kill.

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16

Thursday, February 27th 2014, 10:28pm

shinryu, great to have you back!

just two comments: AS VAL in these tables is a tad glitched because it's made to use HB that it cannot equip in-game :pinch: (too much stuff in my hands atm)

I was thinking of your over-compensation idea just a minute ago; it could be relevant not only for getting the high-spread shots to hit a wider target (torso...) but also to avoid missing entirely the follow-up headshot because of flinching (see Annoying headshot mechanic).

this is what i get for falling off the earth for a month or so... great work, everybody in the thread here. for what it's worth this seems to agree pretty solidly with my (sadly unpublished) probabalistic analyses that the AEK/SCAR-H/AK-12 are the holy trinity of assault weapons. i am pleasantly surprised to see my intuition about the M4 confirmed by the numbers as well, though shame about the M16A4. and the F2000, for that matter...

so, roughly speaking it seems like the optimal gun selections are:

Assault: AEK/SCAR-H/AK-12, roughly corresponding to expecting short/medium/long-range engagements
Support: MG4/M240B/PKP/M60, again for short/medium/longish ranges, but these seem to all be fairly well-baleanced with one another.
Carbine: M4/ACE 53/AKU-12, with maybe an honorable mention for the ACW-R as a close range chainsaw.
PDW: AS VAL or don't even bother, apparently.

3VerstsNorth: apologies if these simulations came up in a different thread already, but i still think it'd be nice to see this with a dynamic aimpoint if that's possible; if you can center the first shot on the head and then move the aimpoint down so that the top of the spread increase cone intersects the top of the head hitbox this optimizes the chances of the subsequent rounds hitting the head or body as best as possible and should create the absolute fastest possible time to kill.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
"Many bullets help." WoopsyYaya
"most rhetorically legitimate ad hominem 2015" ToTheSun!

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17

Friday, February 28th 2014, 4:11am

Yea as said when the sims are locked at 3 round bursts the burst only weapons lose one of their drawbacks and in practice you shouldn't even try shoot them at max rpm. It's still ok to list them as having their max rpm since it doesn't change the sim since all weapons have time between bursts just that in practice burst weapons are slightly weaker at hipfire ranges than their stats with an equivalent automatic weapon (you can only magdump an ak12 at slightly above 700rpm or you run the risk of clipping and dying miserably.

34-25 damage model weapons are also quite a bit better when torso hits do 100% damage. Without defensive perk big boy bullets at 600 rpm at close range kill in the same amount of time as 25-18 bullets shot at 900 rpm. With defensive perk 25-18 bullets kill about 10% faster than 34-25s. For longer ranges there is similar effect but it is smaller.

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18

Saturday, March 1st 2014, 6:16pm

Wow. Amazing work on these charts. First thing that came to mind though: CBJ-MS definitely sucks balls. It really looks like the PDW's overall are beat out by carbines. The only decent ones are the AS Val (if you a god with recoil control and mag management), the CZA3 and the PDW-R+HB (if you love hipfiring and ADSing on the move like me).

I was surprised how low the SAR-21 on the headshot chart; maybe it doesn't kick the AK-12 out of the park after all.

Overall, it looks like the CBJ-MS, PP-2000, U-100, G36, and Type 95 fam need some love in order to balance out the classes a bit. The CBJ could really use 14.5 end dmg and less h recoil...

  • "3VerstsNorth" started this thread

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20

Sunday, March 2nd 2014, 9:33am

Err, can somebody help me out here? What do these charts mean? How do i read them?

Essentially all details are here: Brute-force approach to BF4 gun balance & optimal attachments, burst sizes, and aim targets

In short, the color tells you which gun is relatively the fastest killer (separately for each distance). In each cell, the numbers are 1. mean effective time-to-kill (T100), 2. mean number of bullets fired, 3. optimal attachment combination.

@HolyBalls111
Thanks! Your inferences are all correct.

@Zergberg
These analyses would be easy to do with body armour. I'll give that a shot when I'm done revising the main brute-force thread/analyses.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
"Many bullets help." WoopsyYaya
"most rhetorically legitimate ad hominem 2015" ToTheSun!