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Antarctica

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Tuesday, December 31st 2013, 2:51am

MAA 20mm vs. 30mm

So I got bored and decided to do some calculations with the MAAs' two round choices.

According to Symthic's vehicle data, the 20mm fires at 2000rpm, while the 30mm fires at 600rpm.
That makes the 20mm able to fire 33 rounds in one second, with the 30mm fires just 10.

The 20mm's heat threshold is 6 seconds of continuous fire and the 30mm's is 3.5 seconds.
That lets the 20mm fire 200 rounds continuously before overheating and lets the 30mm fire 35.

All data beyond this point is calculated on the assumption that all shots hit their target.

Onto damage vs. infantry, the 20mm deals 5 damage to infantry per round hit, while the 30mm does 17.
The 20mm would then deal 165 damage in one second versus infantry, while the 30mm deals 170 in one second.
So that means that the 20mm will take 20 shots to kill a healthy infantry while the 30mm will take only 6.
If we turn that into TTK, the 20mm takes 600 milliseconds to kill someone at 100% health, and the 30mm would also take 600 milliseconds.
Although, due to the 20mm's base spread of 0.3, it will have a harder time with accuracy against infantry. The 30mm has 0 base spread, and both ammo types have 0.6 max spread.

Onto damage against air vehicles.
Keep in mind that all air vehicles have 500 health, the exception being the Transport Heli, which has 750.
(Forgive me, I'm too lazy to download Excel.)

Damage per second Vs. Air

Source code

1
2
3
4
20mm                                    30mm
     Stealth & Attack Jets = 85.8            Stealth & Attack Jets = 81
      Scout & Attack Helis = 52.8             Scout & Attack Helis = 48
            Transport Heli = 36.3                   Transport Heli = 32

Damage before overheat Vs. Air

Source code

1
2
3
4
20mm                                    30mm
     Stealth & Attack Jets = 520             Stealth & Attack Jets = 283.5
      Scout & Attack Helis = 320              Scout & Attack Helis = 168
            Transport Heli = 220                    Transport Heli = 112


Now time to kill air vehicles in milliseconds.
This includes the amount of time to reload and how many reloads are necessary.

Time to kill Air in milliseconds

Source code

1
2
3
4
20mm                                    30mm
     Stealth & Attack Jets = 5,790           Stealth & Attack Jets = 6,100
      Scout & Attack Helis = 7,694            Scout & Attack Helis = 10,000
            Transport Heli = 14,168                 Transport Heli = 21,357


tl;dr: The 20mm is statistically better than the 30mm against air vehicles

What do you guys think about this 20mm vs. 30mm argument? Opinions? Hmmmm?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Antarctica" (Jan 2nd 2014, 1:45am) with the following reason: Edited in C0llis's error fixes. Also added spread information.


Sheepnub

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Tuesday, December 31st 2013, 2:55am

What do you guys think about this 20mm vs. 30mm argument? Opinions? Hmmmm?

20mm vs air, 30mm for added infantry/light-armor effectiveness

^end of story really

@cloon
yo
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Tuesday, December 31st 2013, 3:48am

That's interesting as I find the 30mm Better for killing infantry and jeeps and other light vehicles, but the 20mm better for actual anti air capability.
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Tuesday, December 31st 2013, 3:50am

Do the 30mm cannons have a much tighter cone of fire or something? Having spent a decent amount of time with both, infantry dies in only a second or two of sustained fire with the 30mm. When shooting at them with the 20mm it feels like I'm following them with my crosshair for 5+ seconds before they die.

Sheepnub

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Tuesday, December 31st 2013, 4:00am

@desertgoldfish
Both have a max spread of 0.6 (which is reached really quickly), but the 30mm has a base spread of 0.0 (as opposing to the 20mm's 0.3 base)

So ye, in short bursts the 30'll be more accurate vs small targets like infantry
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


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Tuesday, December 31st 2013, 4:01am

Yeah, you don't mention that the 30mm has 0 base spread. Very good for shredding roof campers on Zavod from beyond their effective range.

Cloon

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Tuesday, December 31st 2013, 4:55am

i have been summoned.

So heres my 2 cents on the topic:

1. Generally whart sheepnub said is true (20mm vs air, 30mm for added infantry/light-armor effectiveness)

2. The OPs calculation on inf TTK is wrong becasue it asumes that all bullets hit wich is pretty much impossible with the 20mm and not impossible with the 30mm. Theoretically both those guns should have the same max spread (according to gamefiles). But ingame testing shows that the 30mm has almost no spread. Wheter that is a glitch or intended idk and i hope that will never get fixed if its a glitch since its pretty much the only reason 30mms arent completely outclassed.

3. 20mm have 1200 mps velocity and 1s TTL, 30mm have 800mps velocity and also 1s TTL. Now combined with the fact that 20mm also has a lot more rpm, 20mm is a LOT easier to use (less prediction/leading required) and has a whole 50% more range. This means the faster your targets and/or the bigger the map is you play on the better 20mms become.

4. Generally spoken use 20mm as your standard loadout but switch to 30mm in certain scenarios. Following scenarios are examples where 30mm is a good choice:
- A map like Zavod. No jets means no really fast targets. No AH means you wont be outranged by a chaingun. Transport heli is not very fast and very seldom a huge threat. Littlebird can be dealt with with the 30mm. Not much armor means you can be quite agressive with the MAA and stay alive, run from the MBT, the LAV is barely stronger than you if he has tows/AP and you have Zunis but even then can be outplayed. Lots of infantry means enough food for 30mm.

- Maps with 1 map spawnable MAA and your teams pilots are superior. On a map like rogue or hainan when your team has superior jetpilots it can be overkill to focus the MAA on air. In that szenario its often smarter to use a anti inf loadout with 30mms and zunis and help out the groundforces instead. The reason why i wrote maps with 1 mapspawnable MAA is because on maps where both teams have a MAA you often cant afford to chose a ground loudout as MAA since even if the enemy team has weaker pilots you will be forced to help your pilots out if the enemy team has a MAA that focuses on air.
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Tuesday, December 31st 2013, 5:55am

The base spread sentences the 30mm as the best option. Just need to learn to lead on fast moving aircraft (jets and very distant scout helis), and its not even that hard cause it travels so fast and has very little drop.
This is where I'm coming from: Clicky

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Tuesday, December 31st 2013, 7:19am

The base spread sentences the 30mm as the best option. Just need to learn to lead on fast moving aircraft (jets and very distant scout helis), and its not even that hard cause it travels so fast and has very little drop.


The main problem is not that its hard to lead with the 30mm but that it has a shorter range (800m vs 1200m). Also leading jets that are flying straight is easy but as soon as the pilot is actively evading MAA fire it becomes harder to lead with the 30mm while its still easy enough with the 20mm. I gladly trade that bit of dps for the range and ease of use you gain.
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VincentNZ

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Tuesday, December 31st 2013, 12:07pm

Yeah what Cloon said, really, I used the 30mm for a long time, and while the anti-infantry capability is nice to have, it just does not fit the main task of this vehicle, same with the Zuni Rockets. Paired together you would have a capable anti-ground, but why bother when there are better alternatives around? Just hop in a LAV...

However the 30mm can be more powerful against Air as well, yet with a higher RPM and therefore more hitmarkers the 20mm is vastly easier to use because you get more instant feedback when shooting aircraft, and with the heat threshold every shot has to hit with the 30mm, so you have to make it count. All in all I find the 20mm damage against Air a bit too low and the secodnary weapon damage tendencially too high. In the end it usually is the 20mm that destroys the aircraft, but only because the active radar is on reload...