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  • "Dark_Ethereal" started this thread

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Saturday, November 30th 2013, 7:13pm

This is why you cannot aim.

I don't know about you, but I have been having a hard time adjusting to BF4's gun mechanics, I know it's to do with the sensitivities mainly, so I am going to show you what the problem is. If you think you can aim just fine then feel free to ignore it completely.

Using the data obtained on this thread, I plotted a graph of the "speed factor" (sensitivity multiplier) of each sight in the thread against it's FOV, along with an "Ideal speed factor" line, which shows a proportional distrebution of speed factor to FOV where FOV 90 has a speed factor of 1, and FOV 0 would have a speed factor of 0.
Please note that the all this data is only valid when your FOV setting is set to 90, however that isn't to say it doesn't help for every other setting.

Before viewing the graph, understand this. In order to develop "muscle memory" and "Twitch aim skillz", it's best to have the most consistent sensitivity (in terms of distance on screen versus distance mouse moved) as possible, that means the speed factor divided by FOV should be as constant as possible.

So here is the graph:



So what does this graph tell us? Well first off, let me explain why the FOV scale is backwards. Higher FOV means lower zoom, so this way, the dots are in order of zoom from left to right.
Now here's the important stuff. Firstly, with the exception of of hip firing (FOV 90), none of the actual values match up with my theoretical ideal (hip firing has to match by definition). This by it's self isn't so much of a problem.
Secondly, the higher zoom scopes overshoot the ideal the most.
Finally, pattern of actual speed factors is not linear, in fact its not really a predictable pattern at all.

So what does that mean for us in game? It means because there is no pattern, switching between optics is very likely to upset your aiming, especially when switching between mid-range and close range scopes. Lets explore that Idea some more.

I plotted a Bar chart of the sights' sensitivity divided by their FOV.






So what does this tell us? Well, Any bars with roughly the same value lie on roughly the same "line of proportionality" (by that I mean a straight line that goes through the origin). Proportional relationships are nice and easy for our brains to adapt to, so if sights lie on the same line it will be easier to switch between them than if they don't.
Now "Hipfire" lies on the ideal proportional line, it is therefore the gold standard. Unfortunately none of the sights share this value. This wouldn't be so bad if all the ADS sights had the same value, because then you could just get used to having a different pattern for ADS.
The problem is they don't! As you can see on the chart, the mid range scopes all have roughly the same value to each other, so they have one predictable pattern, close range scopes have a different value. so judging from this graph if you always use medium range sights, your speed factors will follow a pattern and you will get used to it. If you always use close range sights, your speed factors will follow a rough pattern and you will get used to it.
However if you mix between close and medium sights, it will feel like someone is screwing with your sensitivities and it will be much harder (if not impossible) to get used to it and develop "twitch" aiming skills.

It's also worth noting that the closer range scopes are closer to the hipfire ideal, so they may be preferable.

Why is it like this?!?!
I have two theories. Firstly, when I switched to BF4, I prefered the feeling of the mid range scopes, while ironsights gave me a hard time, so I think the 3.4x and 4x scopes were copied straight from BF3, which had a more constant proportional relationship for speed factors. The close sights on the other hand, with their FOV's varying with each player's FOV, were likely re-done and not much attention was given to the "nuances".
My other theory is that DICE likes n00bs and hates skillz, making this a muscle memory nerf, but I live by Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Contortrix

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Saturday, November 30th 2013, 7:18pm

I noticed this as well. Switching sights really throws me off.

NoctyrneSAGA

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Saturday, November 30th 2013, 7:57pm

No wonder. People kept telling me about how optics are much better than ironsights, but no matter which optic I tried, i couldn't find one that felt right. Looks like I'll just have to stick to ironsights from now on.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Sheepnub

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Saturday, November 30th 2013, 8:01pm

This was in existence in bf3 as well. Nothing changed really.
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


Contortrix

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Saturday, November 30th 2013, 8:05pm

Battlefield 3 didn't have the ability to toggle sights on the fly.

  • "Dark_Ethereal" started this thread

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Saturday, November 30th 2013, 8:07pm

This was in existence in bf3 as well. Nothing changed really.
Do you know where I can get the numbers for BF3? I'd love to make a comparison.

All I can say though is that something definitely feels off in BF4, and I think it is the close range to medium range disparity. My theory is that all sights in BF3 followed the same pattern as the medium range ones in BF4, or that they at least followed some pattern, even if it isn't the ideal.
Of course I can't back that up with evidence, but it certainly feels that way to me.

Mofixil

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Saturday, November 30th 2013, 8:47pm

Do you know where I can get the numbers for BF3? I'd love to make a comparison.

Click!

Sheepnub

I pity the wool

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Saturday, November 30th 2013, 9:32pm

This was in existence in bf3 as well. Nothing changed really.
Do you know where I can get the numbers for BF3? I'd love to make a comparison.

All I can say though is that something definitely feels off in BF4, and I think it is the close range to medium range disparity. My theory is that all sights in BF3 followed the same pattern as the medium range ones in BF4, or that they at least followed some pattern, even if it isn't the ideal.
Of course I can't back that up with evidence, but it certainly feels that way to me.

BF3 values:

1x (rds): fov 40, speed 0.5: 80 ratio
1x (irons): fov 40, speed 0.5: 80 ratio
holo: fov 32, 0.32 speed: 100 ratio
3.4x: fov 20, 0.36 speed: 55.5556 ratio
4x: 17.2000001, 0.31 speed: 55.4838 ratio
6x: fov 11.6, 0.21 speed: 55.2380 ratio
7x: fov 9.9, 0.21 speed: 47.14 ratio
8x: fov 8.7, 0.16 speed: 54.37 ratio
12x: fov 5.8, 0.11 speed: 52.7272 ratio
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


  • "Dark_Ethereal" started this thread

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: Nov 26th 2013

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9

Saturday, November 30th 2013, 11:54pm

Fascinating! Check this out.



It seems BF3 didn't have a pattern either. Shows what I know! I haven't done the higher optic scopes yet so they might still line up with the 3.4x and 4x scopes.
It's interesting to note that the 3.4x and 4x haven't changed, which is probably why I really like them.
Also, the IRNV scope is the same as the ironsight/RDS of BF3, food for thought...
And I have no idea what holo sights were doing down there...

Sheepnub

I pity the wool

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10

Sunday, December 1st 2013, 12:19am

And I have no idea what holo sights were doing down there...

they were being like all accurate n shit... :(

RIP HOLO's best LO's
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about