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NoctyrneSAGA

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31

Tuesday, November 12th 2013, 2:31am

For semi-auto weapons,

A. would you use the full RoF and suffer the spread increase or
B. "automatically" lower the RoF by the minimum amount of time that recovers the minimum spread (13.3 ms for some pistols, so for Compact 45, RoF 320 => 299 rpm)?


Why not do both on the same chart (ie "Compact 45 MAX RPM" and a "Compact 45 RECOVERED")? It'd be able to indicate whether spamming some semis may actually be better.
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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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32

Tuesday, November 12th 2013, 3:11am

This is just incredible! Are you planning on making tables for the non-optimal attachment combinations? I'd like to see how much less ideal other combos are. I'm just not feeling the HB or potato for that matter.
Hail to the king, baby!

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33

Tuesday, November 12th 2013, 8:53am

@NoctyrneSAGA
Lol, yes, brute-force approach FTW. I'll do so, but it will take an evening or two to tweak the code to handle properly the full-auto, burst, and semi-auto mix. (Now burst-guns like M16A4 and M4 are not correctly treated and actually shouldn't be in these tables.)

@Cyphur
Yes, the idea is indeed to create tables for the handicap in T100/B100 for specific attachment combinations against the optimum. Ideally this would be coupled into a GUI rather than static tables. Overall, the effects of attachments are quite small, at least in comparison with the effects of burst patterns.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
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34

Tuesday, November 12th 2013, 4:34pm

I don't know if I'm missing something here or not, but why would I be 2 shot bursting with ANY weapon at 5m?

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35

Tuesday, November 12th 2013, 4:54pm

I don't know if I'm missing something here or not, but why would I be 2 shot bursting with ANY weapon at 5m?


I know it's counter intuitive but it's the mathematically most sound fire rate. These are laboratory conditions though and unless you have freon running through your veins you are likely better off just ripping it at that range.
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36

Tuesday, November 12th 2013, 5:53pm

-- Yes, the idea is indeed to create tables for the handicap in T100/B100 for specific attachment combinations against the optimum. Ideally this would be coupled into a GUI rather than static tables. Overall, the effects of attachments are quite small, at least in comparison with the effects of burst patterns.
I'm really looking forward to this! If the difference in TTK between the heavy barrel and the compressor are small enough I would definitely prefer the compressor. It just looks badass and the lower recoil compared to the heavy barrel would be more pleasant to use.

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37

Tuesday, November 12th 2013, 9:37pm

I think you should calculate the tables at a more reasonable 5 round min burst without the head in the equation. makes it a bit more realistic for your average player. Great work

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38

Tuesday, November 12th 2013, 10:28pm

I don't know if I'm missing something here or not, but why would I be 2 shot bursting with ANY weapon at 5m?

The very-short range 2-shot bursts are there because double-headshotting saves bullets :). If you look into ranges 10-40 m, the optimal burst size for most ARs is 4 (3-5). Beyond 50 m, micro-bursting is the way to go, which IMO reflects in-game reality as well.

I think you should calculate the tables at a more reasonable 5 round min burst without the head in the equation. makes it a bit more realistic for your average player.

Something like this is actually coming up soon, see the next post!

It is also possible to force the model to always aim at the chest or whatever and the data (T100 etc. values) for that exist already.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
"Many bullets help." WoopsyYaya
"most rhetorically legitimate ad hominem 2015" ToTheSun!

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39

Tuesday, November 12th 2013, 11:27pm

Ok, update time!

The previous tables (for stationary ADS) were computed with an assumption of 100 ms inter-burst interval and any burst size greater or equal to two shots. The tables show that for most guns at distances above 45 m, micro-bursting these 2-shot bursts gives the smallest T100. For a fictional 700 rpm gun, this means a 271 ms duty cycle for mouse-down-mouse-up, i.e., clicking at 3.7 Hz while compensating for recoil and maintaining aim. Not too much of a challenge for a competitive gamer, but perhaps not the regime for more casual players.

The spoilers of these tables are now renamed to 'Perfect/No compensation IBI 100 ms 2+ shots', where IBI stands for inter-burst interval.

To account for shooting with a more relaxed tempo, I denied 2-shot bursts (range now 3-15) and increased the inter-burst interval to 300 ms. Firing, for example a 5-shot burst and waiting (adjusting aim) for this 300 ms before the next burst gives our fictional gun a duty cycle of 729 ms (clicking at 1.4 Hz). This should be pretty doable for anyone. As you see from the results, the stiff penalty for short bursts of the long 300 ms IBI now favors longer bursts.

New tables for these conditions are now in spoilers named 'Perfect/No compensation IBI 300 ms 3+ shots'.

Given these limits, the optimal attachments, burst sizes, and aimpoints are interesting (!). Go look yourself.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
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40

Tuesday, November 12th 2013, 11:28pm

this is very cool analysis. does it take into account the burst-fire FSM being moved to the third shot rather than the first? I could see how some of the burst-fire rifles might have a good "Mozambique Drill" range at which you get a body-body-head or body head-head in burst mode that would potentially improve their performance relative to the top-end guns given this alteration to the recoil pattern.

also: do you have the data on the variance or median of the TTKs given optimum parameters? while the SCAR-H might always kill if it hits that burst, it would be interesting to see if there's any skew in the distribution of TTKs such that the median TTK is better for some weapons than others, implying some weapons are more reliable than others in terms of "guaranteed" TTK. e.g, if the SCAR's average is good but its median is right-shifted with a long tail, that implies that it's an all-or-nothing weapon; you either land those first two shots for a quick kill or your TTK skyrockets. in contrast, the SAR-21 might have a sucky average TTK but a central median and a tight distribution, so you can count on a close match between expected performance vs. average performance. i don't think this effect will save some of the crappier weapons, but it's an interesting possibility

It's interesting to see how this data backs up the subjective feel of the guns pretty well. the LSAT felt very very good when I unlocked it last night, and indeed if you are in the mid-ranges it is pretty competitive without recoil compensation.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "shinryu" (Nov 12th 2013, 11:46pm)