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  • "Autosynthesis" started this thread

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Tuesday, October 29th 2013, 8:57am

Thoughts on Carbine balance

Now that we have proper charts (thanks Sym!) it is possible to start objectively discussing weapon balance. I've been having mixed feelings about the carbines, which is an excellent basis for discussion, so...

Overall they do not seem strongly differentiated, many being similar to BF3 weapons. However, I have noticed Spread Inc. is now a differentiating factor rather than being standardised by calibre as in BF3. I welcome the change, but I wonder how much of a difference it will make in practice.

A-91
Same old story - a bullpup carbine good for CQB because of it's good hipfire but the recoil is horribly inaccurate.

ACW-R
Looks like an awesome CQB weapon to me; great RoF, reload etc. but the worse Spread inc. of the 5.56s and the H recoil looks nasty.

AK-5C
Fairly average recoil profile; the symmetrical H is bad but it's only 0.2 and it's got an awesome FSM. Fast reload and an OK RoF - looks like a fairly solid mid range weapon but lacks incredible accuracy and it's RoF isn't great in close quarters.

AKU-12
This is quite similar to the G36C but there are some differentiators. It is a slow RoF weapon with a nice recoil profile; 0.05-0.2 makes it a very predictable direction and it has a good FSM. As a slower weapon it has good Spread Inc., so I think this is actually quite a good long range weapon and a real improvement on the AKS-74U it replaced in spirit.

G-36C
The first weapon which struck me as a bit outcompeted. It is similar to the AKU-12, but has quite a lot of symmetrical H recoil to ruin its long range accuracy and is 30 RPM slower. Its spread inc. is marginally better but the H recoil kinda invalidates that. Unless the attachments do something special to this weapon I fear it is the AKU's ugly sister.

ACE-21 CQB
35 rounds at 770 RPM is pretty good and it's H Recoil isn't too shabby either. Unfortunately it's high V recoil combined with a 2 FSM means it will have high initial recoil. It's V recoil is high but counter able. Seems a solid mid-close range weapon and that bigger mag gives it a differentiating advantage.

ACE-52 CQB
Finally we have a 34-20 damage carbine! It has the highest spread inc. and it's over stats are average but with 34 damage at 650 RPM it has a great TTK; it will make a good CQB gun but will have a bit of range too.

M4
The 2.5 FSM is this guns biggest vice because it will affect bursting significantly. Combined with high recoil to the right and vertically this might not be putting together very tight bursts! It has a quick reload and RoF which might make it good in CQB, but I fear the ACW-R outcompetes it in this field somewhat. Personally I think it may be a little lacklustre.

SG-553
What strikes me here are the similarities to the ACW-R; fast RoF and a similar quantity of recoil in each direction. It will be ever so slightly better at range due to superior initial recoil but neither are exactly brilliant ranged weapons and the ACW-Rs RoF bests it in CQB where the guns shine so I would say it is a little outcompeted.

Type-95B-1
A bullpup slow RoF weapon! It has very little H recoil and it's initial recoil ain't bad; it's base spread is a little high but it has great spread inc. and HBar may make the difference inconsequential. Looks like it can stack up well with the AKU-12.

Just initial thoughts, what do others think?
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Tuesday, October 29th 2013, 9:49am

The AKU-12 appears on sym as having 1000 rpm in burst.
Not sure if bug or not, but that might make it the best choice for carbines for close-med range.

The ACE-52 might also be horribly unbalanced. Dice didn't want to give the Scar-h a 3 hit kill in CQ, but this thing gets it? Not only that, but it has 26 bullets? LoL.
This is my new carbine of choice (on paper :) ).

  • "Autosynthesis" started this thread

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Tuesday, October 29th 2013, 9:54am

The ACE-52s recoil and spread inc. may make it a bit iffy at range though, making it more of a CQB oriented weapon...
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Tuesday, October 29th 2013, 9:55am

It's important to note that (idk who sry) said that the day 1 patch changes aren't included into the stats yet.
You may want to hold of on this for now.

5

Tuesday, October 29th 2013, 10:04am

what do others think?


I think they are a great addition to the game , I was worried that due to the fact that they were all kit that they would be shit , because DICE wouldn't want to make an all kit weapon that's as good as the classes primary weapon.

But the addition of them as all kit weapons actually made me play recon and support in the BETA , in fact I played more recon in the BF4 BETA than I did in the whole of BF3.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "paddyotool" (Oct 29th 2013, 10:40am)


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Tuesday, October 29th 2013, 10:14am

The ACE-52s recoil and spread inc. may make it a bit iffy at range though, making it more of a CQB oriented weapon...


Well, we'll have to wait and see on the recoil, how it is affected by the attachments.
As for the spread, it's ROF is slow enough to tap fire it.

I am quite curious how it stand up against the SCAR-H. The scar has lower spread but lower ROF, smaller mag and higher vert recoil.

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Tuesday, October 29th 2013, 7:32pm

I want the type-95 to get the 800rpm It's Irl counterpart has!
Until I actually get the game and get the carbines in my hands it will be impossible for me to appreciate how the differences they have on paper actually separate them from one another, so I have no other opinions except the ace 52 looks GG statwise.
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Tuesday, October 29th 2013, 7:57pm

The G36C would have been pretty balanced if it fired 750 RPM like in BF3 putting it in between the AK5C and the ACE RoF-wise. It has more horizontal recoil than the AK5C but less vertical recoil than the ACE so It's pretty much in between those guns recoil-wise as well!
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Tuesday, October 29th 2013, 10:49pm

Are the Ace 52 400m/s muzzle velocity correct? If yes that thing is just some kind of CQ-Bolter :(

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Wednesday, October 30th 2013, 7:29am

Just doing a few comparisons, it seems like the balance between the assault kit's weapons and the carbines is better this time around. In Battlefield 3, the only thing the carbines have over similar weapons in the assault kit is hipfire spread. Otherwise, they are worse in just about every other category. Hell, DICE didn't even have the common courtesy to give them (aside from the SCAR-H) a slight minimum damage buff while just about every other weapon in Battlefield 3 got one with one of the patches.

For the most part, it appears that DICE got it correct in Battlefield 4. Carbines actually seem like they might be competitive in this title.

Also, as I expected, the ACE 52 does like quite awesome. That's the new weapon I was actually most hyped for. It, as a battle rifle, beats otherwise boring assault rifles. Battle rifles tend to feel the most unique within their respective classes. Sadly, I foresee it getting the nerf hammer as it's statistically much more powerful than what Battlefield 3's SCAR-H ever was (I actually preferred the A-91 over the SCAR-H when Battlefield 3 launched).

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "CReaperDorian" (Oct 30th 2013, 9:23am)