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  • "SightUp" started this thread

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Monday, January 11th 2016, 7:40am

For use of Banned Weapon or Gadgets:

Before I voice my concerns with sections in “For use of Banned Weapon or Gadgets” I would like to remind everyone involved that this is competition and everyone here should have played in a comp before. We all should know what the rules are before going into a match.

Generally there is about a 10 min pregame time where teams go over strats. This is a prime time where it is necessary for the team leader to make sure that their members are playing with the right weapons and kits.

If you leave a loophole in a rule, teams can and WILL exploit it. If they do something wrong, and they get appropriately punished, for example, a loss, then they won’t do it again. This would ensure mistakes DO NOT happen. There should absolutely no reason for a “fluke” accident to happen if the teams are doing their job pregame. Putting it on the other team to manage that midgame is absolutely absurd and unheard of.Typically, what happens is that the round is completely played out without saying anything to the other team, it gets disputed, and a win or new match date is created by/for the victim team.

60 tickets for a second infraction? Where did this come from? A banned weapon in other leagues would have caused either the match to be thrown out automatically with the intent of a rematch at a later date if the match was in the favor of the team that used the weapon, only if it was once or an auto win for the victim.

Why must it be the responsibility of the opposing team to say in all chat that the other team is using a banned weapon? This breaks concentration and flow in comms. It shouldn’t be the responsibility of the other team to police the other team. It will throw off the whole match if this is required and happens.

Here is a scenario if you will. Team 1 vs. Team 2. Player A on Team 1 uses Banned weapon. Other team loses because they all stop to comm and then text chat to inform the other team. Because they want to be quick, 4 out of the 10 people on Team 2 have to stop and type. Team 1 has now killed 7 out of 10 enemy team mates that took the time to write it and wait to acknowledge a response. Next round, Team 1 subs out the player who used the Banned weapon and that player uses it against the other team. It’s his first time. So it’s OK. Do you see the grey space here and how EASILY it can be exploited? This is only one of the scenarios of how this can be exploited. It needs to be across the board a strict rule of no using banned weapons. There are way to many what if situations that could have an outcome on the game if a player is killed due to a Banned gun if a player was planning to spawn on them regardless if it was in a flag radius.

We are all adults and to my knowledge, all teams have competent players. I would highly recommend you do not attempt to rewrite the book on this. Teams will argue it until they are blue in the face and swear up and down that they didn't know; they had a "fluke". Teams will exploit it and it will make for a not a truly fair scrim even if it was truly an accident.

This post by "Hau_ruck" (Monday, January 11th 2016, 6:33pm) has been deleted by user "yugas42" (Monday, January 11th 2016, 6:41pm) with the following reason: Rule 6

Forger21

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Monday, January 11th 2016, 6:40pm

Edit: put post in spoiler since it was referring to an off topic post that was removed

Spoiler Spoiler

Lol at "pro" battlefield. As an outsider, do these people even play proper conquest or is this weird 10v10 bollocks? How are certain weapons banned? This game is well balanced so wtf? I honestly don't understand the so-called "Competitive" scene in this game.

This thread isn't the right place to start that discussion. I believe there is a way for you to hide the Champions Conquest Series section of the forums if you're not interested in it.
2143

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Forger21" (Jan 11th 2016, 6:55pm) with the following reason: Remove reference to off-topic post


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Monday, January 11th 2016, 9:50pm

sightup : I agree.

On a few occasions last season we caught a team adding players without adhering to the protocol. When we called out the 2nd team they said they had gotten away with it to that point so would not remove him. This was done because teams were supposed to "police their own." We caught it, how many other teams didn't?


P.S. Hello to a fellow Nebraskan!
Current Team
(Steel) Fe3C - Ao_Static-X = infi player

Former Team
eSFO - III_Static-X_III = infi player

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "staticX" (Jan 11th 2016, 10:01pm)


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Tuesday, January 12th 2016, 12:58am

Here is the issue with automatic loss due to any rule infraction.

1) Previous leagues have never had a policy where a single rule infraction resulted in a loss. Here is what ESL says: -100 Tickets in the Round and per player who used it. If it was used several times the punishment can be higher!
Even in regards to players not running ESL Wire during a match, they were given a warning on the first offense.
WEL and other leagues such as CEVO have also had the same stance and this is not just something that happened over night. It has been like this for the majority of BF4's release.
A 60 ticket penalty is what we have deemed to be the appropriate penalty for a single rule infraction. If repeated multiple times, tournament organizers will review the case for automatic loss.
There is no real loophole here, you either use a famas and get 1 kill and take a 60 ticket penalty or you don't use it at all. In 10's a single kill only amounts to 1 ticket bleed and a single kill means nothing
in BF4 unlike CSGO.

2) It breaks concentration and flow - In my 2 years of experience, it does no such thing. People break a rule, you play on. This is how every single real life sport is run. However, since there is
no "timeout" function in BF4, the ref never blows his whistle. It takes literally 5 seconds to hit record on shadowplay and type in chat about the offense. The opposite team will naturally be
the first to notice it simply because they are affected by therule infraction. A teammate is typically never going to be killed by another teammate's famas and so he will never notice it.
We can't watch every match live nor can we watch every recorded match. Not even ESL with all of their resources did this. If you want something to be enacted upon, show us the proof.
Otherwise, we are taking it as you guys are okay with a rule infraction. I have played in many matches where a rule was broken. Yes, it breaks concentration.... for about 10 seconds. 10 seconds in this game
is not a game decider. Not only that, but it affects the team who committed the error to an even greater extent.
They have to figure out who broke the rule, they have to make sure that he redeploys and plays with a clean kit, and are now under the stress that they just committed a penalty and now have to play
with 60 tickets down. If anything, the team that committed the penalty is more likely to have a mental breakdown than the opposing team.

3) I do not like your adult argument. Just because we are adults doesn't mean we do not make mistakes. New players are always coming in and may not know all the rules. You could be a substitute mid-game
because someone dropped and you didn't check your loadouts because all that is on your mind right now is to just get in and try to save the match. 60 ticket penalty for a first offense in a match is more than enough.
I don't really see what you are getting at with exploiting the penalties. If you want to take a 60 ticket penalty for getting a single kill with a famas, be my guest. If you want to play with a banned vehicle even after
it was stated in game and take an automatic loss, be my guest. You will receive the penalties we have put forth.

  • "SightUp" started this thread

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Tuesday, January 12th 2016, 2:18am

Your rules allow for "flukes". Teams will abuse this by stating they didn't know and your rules allow them to make one or two "fluke" mistakes before you enforce any kind of punishment. If not, I foresee lot of teams switching out players regularly.

True, no league makes you lose just for the wrong weapon being used. But they also don't make the victim team police the other team midgame. The main argument why we didn't want hackers, or even ex-hackers, to play with us is because we will always wonder if they are cheating and we wouldn't be able to focus at 100%. Like that, this breaks concentration and team mates don't play at their best. Even if it's for 5 seconds as you say. It still has an effect on the outcome of game.


If you are insistent on this, it should not be the responsibility to right there and then call it out. It should be at the discretion of the victims availability to call it out in chat and then it should be brought to the league admins attention after. Then -60, or whatever amount, should be applied automatically.

The adult was a metaphor for being mature and experienced in the competitive community. All competitive team admins know how to read rules and tell people what guns are and aren't allowed.

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Tuesday, January 12th 2016, 3:14am

1) All cases of rule infraction will be reviewed. The "fluke" rule is in regards to all situations that exist outside of the rules, but still somehow interfere with the ruleset. For example, the Uran vs. Symthic final in where one of the symthic members equipped a famas, but never used it. Uran players picked it up and used it. The fluke rule let's us review the process and give it a human judgement on the situation. This rule is not in regards to situations in where you purposefully equip a banned item and say in chat "oops it was a fluke". We will review the evidence, then based on evidence, apply the penalty. Either way, don't think the scenario you have put forth means that there is no penalty.

2) Like I have said before, it is completely impossible for us to watch every match and to take note of every kill in the game or rule infraction. Every single league that I have been in made the victim team report the evidence of such occurrences. In ESL, when the match is finished, ESL Wire will pop up a box and in that box you upload any evidence you want to provide to be reviewed. If you didn't provide it, then nothing can be done about that situation. What do you want me to do? Try to make every team play on my availability schedule (not how available each team is), watch every game, pay 100% attention to what 20 players are doing, and then call out if there is a rule infraction? Even in this scenario, when I call out for a rule infraction, both teams concentration will break, whether it be for 5 seconds or some other duration of time. The same thing will happen.

3) I think you are bit mixed up here. It does not have to be the immediate victim of a rule infraction. It can be anyone on that team to say in chat "famas". It is to serve as acknowledgement for a rule break and to let the other team know that they are doing something wrong. If you do not inform the other team, and that new player who just subbed in didn't know, then he is just gonna keep playing with it because he doesn't know any better. If this occurs, that would mean an absolute lost that could have prevented to just a 60 ticket penalty. Call it out as soon as possible or just keep getting killed by it. It is your choice. In my opinion, it is best that the immediate victim calls it out because he usually has time within the spawn screen right after he was killed with the banned item. Evidence doesn't have to be provided by the immediate victim either, a teammate can hit record and show the kill log of the famas kill as proof. Of course, evidence provided by the victim is the best proof. All we want is for you to get the evidence, inform the other team, play on, and then show it to us afterwards.

4) In regards to cheaters and ex-cheaters, all leagues have always had a time period ban, not a permanent ban. ESL currently has a rule that has a two year suspension for cheaters. Meaning, they are free to come back when that suspension has run out of time. If an opposing team doesn't want to play against a team with an ex-suspended player on it, they forfeit their match. Look, here are the facts, there is always potential to play against cheaters and ex-cheaters in competitive. You see it all the time in CSGO and other big competitive games with real followings and procedures. Just because they don't have any marks on their account, doesn't mean someone isn't cheating. The ones with marks are the ones have been caught. So, does that mean you should be wary of every single player playing? Just freaking play the match. If they are cheating, it will be obvious, and they will be banned and the victim team will have no effect on them. However, this discussion will be saved for later.