The way a computer works is just another mechanic to be exploited if you are into that kind of thing.

If you don't pursue them, you're giving them opportunity to pursue you (as was suggested above). You don't have a lot of choice. There are ways around it but I won't explain how here, as it strikes me the information would only be abused.

KDNS is just a troll at this point.

Don't feed the troll.

Quoted from "KDNS"

Yeh I guess if being a good sport doesn't matter and you have no sense of pride or honour you could do that. See also glitching, hacking, using accidentally unbalanced weapons. Hey, it's in the game.

You deserved the hatemail.

The counter play against the "dirty" tactic is quite simple.

1) Don't get target fixation, as soon as you see someone run to their SAA, then turn back to your, or do a strafing run, if he's running because you can out turn him, chances are you can do it easily again.

2) Turn his strat against him, go hide above your SAA, chances are he'll be so focused on you that he forgets where he is on the map and suffers to target fixation.

It's a tactic meant to help beginner pilots stand a chance against someone who knows what they're doing, sure it might not be "honorable" or "clean," but if you keep getting destroyed by a pilot who knows what they're doing, then use whatever you can to even the field.

I don't think a good pilot is someone who can out turn the opponent, but someone who can out think him.

Quoted from "Gauss H2K"

I don't think a good pilot is someone who can out turn the opponent, but someone who can out think him.

This is true for any sort of engagement really.

If you're concerned with winning, then there are no tactics or strategies that are off the table. Fleeing to the SAA keeps your jet alive and if they're stupid enough to follow you into it, well, can we really say they didn't deserve to die? Is it somehow "cheap" that an easily avoidable static emplacement bit them in the ass for doing something stupid?

No. If they're able to force you away from the combat zone, that's good enough. Besides, if you die, someone actually good at jets might hop in. Then he'd have something to worry about it.



Or maybe next time when I'm flying jets, I'll check out where the enemy is on the global jet leaderboard. If he's higher than me, I'll just crash into the ground. I'm probably not going to beat him anyways.

LOL symbolsix no. I'm not a troll, I'm a person who was brought up to know that it's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. If all you've got to add to the conversation is to call me a troll, you've added all I need to hear from you. While NoctyrneSAGA and I definitely disagree on how one should play a game, at least I respect his inclination to stand up and say something with substance.... And that he's smart enough to crash the jet when he's done with it, so the enemy don't steal it

Gauss the trouble with #1 is that when you turn away from him, he sees it and turns back toward you, and now he has the advantage. You really don't have that option. I mean, yeh you can maybe shake him off your tail and get behind him again, then he will run to SAA again, and you end up in this stupid boring dance where you back and forth with the SAA and do nothing all game. The trouble with #2 is thatyou're now perpetuating the above problem.

I know baserape was a really bad problem in BF3 but the automatic SAA was a bad way to fix it and needs to go.

Quoted from "KDNS"

Gauss the trouble with #1 is that when you turn away from him, he sees it and turns back toward you, and now he has the advantage. You really don't have that option. I mean, yeh you can maybe shake him off your tail and get behind him again, then he will run to SAA again, and you end up in this stupid boring dance where you back and forth with the SAA and do nothing all game. The trouble with #2 is thatyou're now perpetuating the above problem.

If you retreat to your base because he retreated to his, as soon as you turn your six, you're obviously going to be hounded. The trick then is to draw him out of safety, and get him to overextend.

If he doesn't give in to target fixation, and it's just a back and forth stalemate, then I don't what else to call two pilots of equal skill if not that. Since both of you have effectively shut down the opponents air game kinda.

I highly doubt that those type of situations occur frequently because usually someone will crack and fixate on the other pilot because they're frustrated.

KDNS if you're not a troll, add something substantive yourself. I called on you to back up your claims, and you responded:

Quoted from "KDNS"

Dude there's nothing revolutionary about it, it's just practice. Look how beast haber is with that sraw. I don't think he just woke up one day able to do that. I can't do that, I'm awful with SRAW. I got ruined in attack heli for weeks and weeks before I learned how to TOW jets.... but I got there in the end. You can do it!

Conspicuously absent: any actual evidence for you claims.


"Get good " is not a tactic. "Get ruined for weeks and weeks before you learn how to TOW jets" is not a strategy. This thread isn't about spending disproportionate time learning a niche skill to address an unbalanced feature, it's about identifying a counter to jets. Show us a video of someone effectively shutting down a halfway decent jet pilot's game by TOWing them from an attack chopper. If that skill can be learned by a large amount of the player base and is effective against comparably skilled jet pilots, then it's a counter. Otherwise, TOW is only a "counter" to jets the same way the Mare's Leg is a "counter" to assault rifles.


Again, if someone's found an actual counter to jets beyond "Try to get the MAA" and "Hope they make a mistake", I'm all ears and will be very grateful. I'd even happily eat my words to KDNS.

Quoted from "KDNS"

LOL symbolsix no. I'm not a troll, I'm a person who was brought up to know that it's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. If all you've got to add to the conversation is to call me a troll, you've added all I need to hear from you. While NoctyrneSAGA and I definitely disagree on how one should play a game, at least I respect his inclination to stand up and say something with substance.... And that he's smart enough to crash the jet when he's done with it, so the enemy don't steal it

Gauss the trouble with #1 is that when you turn away from him, he sees it and turns back toward you, and now he has the advantage. You really don't have that option. I mean, yeh you can maybe shake him off your tail and get behind him again, then he will run to SAA again, and you end up in this stupid boring dance where you back and forth with the SAA and do nothing all game. The trouble with #2 is thatyou're now perpetuating the above problem.

I know baserape was a really bad problem in BF3 but the automatic SAA was a bad way to fix it and needs to go.

Using the AA can also be a way to even up the fight when alone against 2 jet pilots. Under normal circumstances there is no way to win that fight otherwise. Using the AA is not a glitch. The m26 dart in BF3 was a glitch.

It is especially important with scout helis since the miniguns are far better against other helis. I run 25mm because they are good against infantry and can hurt vehicles. I don't use scout helis enough to be able to hit from long range with the miniguns. Therefore, if I am in a 1v1 with someone who does nothing but wait on the spawn screen for scout helis all day, and has a hundred service stars with them, of course im not going to take them on head-to head. All im trying to do is take advantage of what people on here have been calling "target fixation". The same thing applies on the ground.

And the base AA imo is one of the best additions to BF4 since it means teams can't easily steal each others helicopters all the time, something that plagued BC2 for its entire lifetime.

I added something substantiative already, you just don't want to accept it.

Fact is, if they're a trash pilot then a trash anything can beat them. Most trash pilots get wrecked by stingers. If they're a good pilot, then you're gonna have to git gud if you want to take them down. Same can be said for tanks, boats, infantry, you name it.

If you don't want to accept that you're going to need to get good to beat someone good then I can't help you.... but that still doesn't make me a troll. You can eat your words or not, they're still wrong.

Oh and if you want factual evidence, look at my game clips from tonight on xbox live and see the 4 or 5 jets I TOWed in one game. If you go to yesterday, you can see me take out a jet with a SRAW, and with AP shell from a tank, and with little bird, and with TV from a boat. The evidence is not absent, you just aren't aware of it.


@gauss2k : I don't see how those pilots would be evenly matched since one of them is employing an aimbot minigun and the other is not. Take it from a very experienced pilot: If you want to beat a guy who bitches out to his SAA every time you get on his tail, you have to be VASTLY better than him.

@hau_ruck : The baserape in BF3 was a nightmare and I hated it, but the BF4 SAA does not solve it, and is only really useful as a crutch for bad pilots.

Quoted from "KDNS"

I added something substantiative already, you just don't want to accept it.

Fact is, if they're a trash pilot then a trash anything can beat them. Most trash pilots get wrecked by stingers. If they're a good pilot, then you're gonna have to git gud if you want to take them down. Same can be said for tanks, boats, infantry, you name it.

If you don't want to accept that you're going to need to get good to beat someone good then I can't help you.... but that still doesn't make me a troll. You can eat your words or not, they're still wrong.

Oh and if you want factual evidence, look at my game clips from tonight on xbox live and see the 4 or 5 jets I TOWed in one game. If you go to yesterday, you can see me take out a jet with a SRAW, and with AP shell from a tank, and with little bird, and with TV from a boat. The evidence is not absent, you just aren't aware of it.


@gauss2k : I don't see how those pilots would be evenly matched since one of them is employing an aimbot minigun and the other is not. Take it from a very experienced pilot: If you want to beat a guy who bitches out to his SAA every time you get on his tail, you have to be VASTLY better than him.

@hau_ruck : The baserape in BF3 was a nightmare and I hated it, but the BF4 SAA does not solve it, and is only really useful as a crutch for bad pilots.

I also think the base AA adds some much needed depth and variety to jet combat. Instead of the fight being settled entirely by who is better at turning, now positioning on the map and spotting teamwork is also useful. The fact is that unless you do nothing but fly jets 24/7, there will always be better pilots than you. If using the base AA evens up the fight a bit then it is a good thing. Base AA has always been an important part of BF, the only reason it is a bot now is to prevent one poor player from having to sit in it all game bored to death. it is also important since you can't rely on the basecamping MAA players to hit anything.

Base AA is just another necessary part of the game alongside defined base areas for each team. They are unfortunately needed to prevent a lot of the underhanded tactics used in previous games.

Also, having an extra weapon on the map that can effectively engage air vehicles seems fine to me since they have free reign to murder everything on the map easily with few effective counters. All the jets have to do is avoid it. If it prevents every jet fight from turning into an hour of circling each other at 313 then it is a good thing