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  • "W1NG-_-NUTS" started this thread

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Sunday, October 18th 2015, 4:16pm

Anyway to counter the attack jet if you're a garbage pilot?

Howdy folks,

So, lets say you're a pretty terrible pilot. Your team either doesn't have the MAA, or it's some smurf doing the usual thing of camping uselessly in spawn.

Is there anything to be done here? It seems both stinger and igla are pretty damn useless. Sometimes I throw an ammo pack into a rhib boat, and talk some teammates into jumping in with stingers. I call it my ghetto aegis cruiser. It's at least a solid distraction until the jet pilot figures out what's happening. Things end horribly shortly there after ;)

Any legit strategies short of finding another server?

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Sunday, October 18th 2015, 5:07pm

Well, if you truly want to counter against an AJ-pro in all cases, you need to be really good at the stealthjet, he will surely do vertical loops and scissor you.
It takes alot of practice and speedmanagement to properly counter that in the stealthjet if you get into dogfight with him.

If youre not great at flying, if you encounter such a pro, is to run ECM and 20MM, get real high, and pounce on him when he makes a run on an attackboat (Its easiest to hit him like that because of straight line).

Activate ECM if you get within ~650m of him, you will hide from his radar, use full afterburner to close the gap. Open fire when close.

If your team gets really annoyed by him, chances are some people will run stigla's and attackboats maybe start using passive radars, which means the attackjet will use ECM. If you see him he uses/used ECM, use heatseekers to mob.crit hit, your 20mm can do the rest.

If you are not good with the stealthjet, that is one of your few chances to kill him like that.
Dont use active radar, he will notice you and be on your tail.



Other counter can be the attackboat burst cannon, but you need to land all of your shots which is almost impossible to do for many people.

Lucky SMAW hits can also help if he does his vertical run. Dont count on SRAW, its too slow to reach it in time. Attackboat TOW also helps and is quite fast, is better than the slow sluggish TV for hitting him, but you will be facing sure death if you miss.
RIP Sraw

This post has been edited 8 times, last edit by "Iwo_Jima" (Oct 18th 2015, 5:26pm)


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Monday, October 19th 2015, 9:32am

Are they planning on balancing the attack jet at any point? it takes truly obscene amounts of damage from ground weapons to bring them down atm. HMGs, miniguns and the boat burst cannon all have to land a huge amount of damage in one pass to take it down. even if the jet is diving right at your boat and you blast him with the burst cannon, it very rarely will bring him down.

to make matters worse the RHIB is now bugged so it explodes when hit by any guided rocket and doesn't seem to get any lock indicator now. these two facts make parcel storm a completely broken map now. i really hope dice does something to address this but I fear the attack jet fanboys will bitch again.

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Monday, October 19th 2015, 11:25am

Are they planning on balancing the attack jet at any point?
Not sure, latest CTE changes for Fall patch nerfs burst cannon in damage against air, but buffs it in replenishment rate, which wont bring down attackjet either way:

Quoted

PRIMARY WEAPON – BURST CANNON Very high damage output against aircraft. Good at range.

Damage 8 (10)

BlastImpulse 500 (750)

AutoReplenishDelay 12.0 s (20.0)
Im not sure if material multipliers changed on the attackjet, but the sentence 'Very high damage output against aircraft. Good at range' seem silly in the light of 20% nerf in damage. Speed and spread also stay the same, so hitting jets at range still stays damn hard to do.


RHIB guns got buffed, but they still severely lack the range thus wont bring down any competent AJ pilot.

  • MINGUNS
    Boat minigun damage increased from 10 max/2 min to 12 max/ 6 min

    All minigun damage now drops faster, from 200 to 300 meters, previously 250 to 500 meters

Passive Radar missiles work differently now, you can prefire them like with active radar missiles but you have to lockon to target in time as like with IGLA. i.e. for setting a trap.
They got more range and damage, but if AJ uses the 7 seconds ECM protection time in his first run with the new APS up-time, RCB with burst cannon and PRM loadout will probably be dead before he can dish out enough damage with it to get it to disable treshold.

Quoted

Passive Radar The role of the Passive Radar is now focused on
being anti-jet. It will have good top speed, unlimited locking altitude
(only distance in horizontal plane matters) and prefiring. Prefiring
allows for setting up traps, but the hold-lock mechanic gives targets
good chances of evading. Also prevents use of main cannon.
Impact impulse reduced to 2000

Autoreplenish decreased from 30 s to 20 s

Damage increased to 195 across all vehicles

Raylength increased from 500 to 650

Timetolive reduced from 10 to 6 s

Turn rate reduced to 350 max

Enabled prefiring

Increased acceleration to 75

Unified locktime to 1.1 s

Unified acceptance angle to 5 degrees

Enabled forcespawntocamera for more accurate aiming

Enabled locking empty vehiclesenabled “IgnoreHeigthLockDistance”

Attack boats (DV-15 & RCB-9) Passive Radars are now properly firing Passive Radars, instead of Heatseekers.
Source: http://cte.battlelog.com/bf4/news/3/
RIP Sraw

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Iwo_Jima" (Oct 19th 2015, 11:41am)


C0llis

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Monday, October 19th 2015, 11:51am

I really hope dice does something to address this but I fear the attack jet fanboys will bitch again.
Jet fanboys are already bitching. They've been bitching nonstop on CTE and now when stiglas are 2HK jets are apparently worse than ever, despite CMs being at an all time high and missiles finally having somewhat reasonable acceleration and turnrates. Not that manpads ever were a problem to jets either. Taking two stigla hits in quick succession still requires some serious overextending/greed from the jet pilot's side and now non-suicidal jet pilots will have to back off for some time if they take a missile hit but apparently that means that DICE hates air and skill.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

ViperFTW

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Monday, October 19th 2015, 12:39pm

but apparently that means that DICE hates air and skill.


I can't speak for DICE, but after last night I fucking hate jets and skill…
Manpads need more fire power and they NEED to ignore Y distance!

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Song currently stuck in my head is: Red Cold River by Breaking Benjamin!

Zer0Cod3x

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Monday, October 19th 2015, 12:41pm

Manpads need more fire power and they NEED to ignore Y distance!

Well, the IGLA does.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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Monday, October 19th 2015, 1:43pm

DICE didn't get the vertical range fix in the patch IIRC. It's not ready yet so at least for awhile jets will still be OP as hell.

ViperFTW

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Monday, October 19th 2015, 6:36pm

Manpads need more fire power and they NEED to ignore Y distance!

Well, the IGLA does.

DICE didn't get the vertical range fix in the patch IIRC. It's not ready yet so at least for awhile jets will still be OP as hell.


Pretty much that, or they think they put it in but it doesn't fucking work. One or the other...

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Monday, October 19th 2015, 7:10pm

Man, reading this thread and thinking back, I can't help but hope that DICE leaves jets out of BF5 entirely. In less than a week it will be four years since the BF3 release, and DICE is still experimenting with the basic paradigm of air to ground combat in hopes of finding something that works.



More on topic: I'm hopeful but not optimistic that the changes to the missiles finally bring jets into line. Does anyone know if IGLA are intended to be able to prefire as well as ignore vertical range, the same as PRM? If not, I'm still concerned about jet dominance on maps where it's possible for one side not to have a boat or MAA, like Transmission and Giants.