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21

Friday, September 4th 2015, 6:25pm

I haven't had a chance to play it yet. is it true that MRAPs have headlights for some reason? without any night vision I fear my beautiful transport vehicles will just be a giant shining target without any way of firing back on enemies. :(


Yeah, all vehicles have headlights. Still the MRAP is more powerful than on the daylight version. So do not worry.

Hmm, I sense a lot of hate towards Zavod as a map in general. Why is that, that Viper, CobaltRose and C0llis seem to avoid it, while I think Zavod is the best vanilla map in this game. To me it combines the best of Battlefield 3 on one map. Not too large, cover from above, no vehicular overkill, good working combined warfare, decent distances between flags, not so stupid verticality, levolution that makes sense. The only negative thing I can find about Zavod is that the destruction is a bit too much, when the round lasts longer. It comes closer to the urban (!) maps of Aftermath than any of the shitty "urban" maps in BF4. I think from the gameplay flow, it is one of the best maps we have.

On the other side I thought that Dragon Valley is the worst type of map they could have adapted from former Battlefield titles. It is too big for me, it has too many vehicles, infantry bound to a certain area, whole weapon classes virtually useless, no real cover from above, distances and flag counts are too big. And we have a shitload of similar maps like it already. Dragon Pass, Golmud, Silk Road, Karelia, Rogue Transmission, Altai and Hammerhead. Bah.

Anyhow, I agree that with the manpower they put into this they could remaster other maps, or resolve issues that so many maps have. On the other hand though, if they try something new I am not against it, because it might help with future Battlefield titles, so it might lead to better lighting in BF5, when they learn to use the engine to it's best.


What do you mean by more powerful? is it different somehow?

I agree that Zavod is a good map. C and D is a bit of a clusterf$%# but the rest are good, but overall all your points are true. I like that while it has some verticality, being on a roof makes you vulnerable as well as deadly. it isn't like shanghai or dawnbreaker where rooftop campers are pretty much untouchable without a spawn beacon. Snipers are actually forced to stay on the map too instead of sitting on some hill a mile from anywhere.

ViperFTW

Suidae cathexis

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22

Friday, September 4th 2015, 6:37pm

Hmm, I sense a lot of hate towards Zavod as a map in general. Why is that, that Viper, CobaltRose and C0llis seem to avoid it, while I think Zavod is the best vanilla map in this game.


Oh good, that means the bitter, seething, bubbling, wretched hatred I hold within my being about Zavod is coming across :D

Cannot fucking stand it. Cannot. Fucking. Stand. It.
  • Tree cover means that you can't acquire a target under any situation ("Wood Nymph Syndrome" as Cheapnub Sheepnub put it).
  • Middle flags roof tops have almost perfect overwatch of the entire map, not to mention the flags themselves are a fucking pain in the arse to capture for the exact same reason: Constant "Vertical gameplay"...
  • Gimme flags each have a hideously contained area in which its not-only highly possible for a squad(s) to totally fortify themselves within your gimme, but this will occur on 99% of occasions, and leads to your defeat on probably 75% of that...
  • Speaking of fortifications: Clearing bitches out of the train cars (fucking all of them) is a labourous task at the least and a meat grinder at the worst of times...

I could go on...

Think what you like, lad, I couldn't care less. If Zavod spontaneously stopped existing tomorrow then I wouldn't mourn the loss for a second, in fact I'd probably crack open a few beers in celebration that the game has FINALLY been un-ruined in at least one minor way :D

Everybody's Favourite Worthless Support and LMG Fan! :thumbsup:



Song currently stuck in my head is: Red Cold River by Breaking Benjamin!

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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  • "VincentNZ" started this thread

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23

Friday, September 4th 2015, 6:38pm

Well all the changes rather help the MRAP.

There are less threats on the field, as there is no Scout Heli and no MAA. Then the visibility is reduced, which makes engaging your MRAP generally harder, especially for infantry. The flow is much slower, so you might not face as many opponents in a short time as in bright daylight.

And, but I can not confirm that, in the gunner position you seem to have a brighter view than on foot, soldiers do stand out more. Maybe because you are above the ground fog, or it is just placebo.

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24

Friday, September 4th 2015, 6:52pm

I really enjoyed Zavod-Graveyard yesterday. The darkness changes play styles and tactics a lot, which I think is cool. I would support more night maps in future BF games.

I ended up deciding that I really didn't need to use FLIR/INV to be effective. I did enjoy using the tac light.

Sheepnub

I pity the wool

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: Sep 20th 2013

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25

Friday, September 4th 2015, 7:56pm

Hmm, I sense a lot of hate towards Zavod as a map in general. Why is that

"Vertical gameplay"

i.e. "find roof. Sit on roof. Rain death on enemies on 30% of the map from one single position, that have no counter to what you are doing other than taking the exact roof you are sitting on. And when they do, you just jump off that exact roof and go in for a quick backrape and get back on.

Vertical gameplay can be accomplished in multiple ways. Pearl market did it right. 50% of the vanilla BF3 maps did it horribly HORRIBLYYYY wrong. It is the main contributing factor to me personally being unable to play those maps seriously.


Edit: And no. That one guy in the helicopter is not a viable reason to says it's balanced.
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


Posts: 7,809

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26

Friday, September 4th 2015, 8:16pm

Hmm, I sense a lot of hate towards Zavod as a map in general. Why is that

"Vertical gameplay"

i.e. "find roof. Sit on roof. Rain death on enemies on 30% of the map from one single position, that have no counter to what you are doing other than taking the exact roof you are sitting on. And when they do, you just jump off that exact roof and go in for a quick backrape and get back on.

Vertical gameplay can be accomplished in multiple ways. Pearl market did it right. 50% of the vanilla BF3 maps did it horribly HORRIBLYYYY wrong. It is the main contributing factor to me personally being unable to play those maps seriously.


Edit: And no. That one guy in the helicopter is not a viable reason to says it's balanced.

we once had ucav and mortars to deal with that, now no more.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

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Sheepnub

I pity the wool

(2,326)

Posts: 3,234

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: Sep 20th 2013

Platform: PC

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27

Friday, September 4th 2015, 8:26pm

Hmm, I sense a lot of hate towards Zavod as a map in general. Why is that

"Vertical gameplay"

i.e. "find roof. Sit on roof. Rain death on enemies on 30% of the map from one single position, that have no counter to what you are doing other than taking the exact roof you are sitting on. And when they do, you just jump off that exact roof and go in for a quick backrape and get back on.

Vertical gameplay can be accomplished in multiple ways. Pearl market did it right. 50% of the vanilla BF3 maps did it horribly HORRIBLYYYY wrong. It is the main contributing factor to me personally being unable to play those maps seriously.


Edit: And no. That one guy in the helicopter is not a viable reason to says it's balanced.

we once had ucav and mortars to deal with that, now no more.

Even those, back then, were not sufficient.

If the rooftops miles up in the air with only a ladder to access them (or, sometimes, only accessible with aircrafts) is DICE's definition of "vertical gameplay", then it needs to go.
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

(2,272)

  • "VincentNZ" started this thread

Posts: 2,671

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: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

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28

Friday, September 4th 2015, 9:35pm

Hmm, I sense a lot of hate towards Zavod as a map in general. Why is that

"Vertical gameplay"

i.e. "find roof. Sit on roof. Rain death on enemies on 30% of the map from one single position, that have no counter to what you are doing other than taking the exact roof you are sitting on. And when they do, you just jump off that exact roof and go in for a quick backrape and get back on.

Vertical gameplay can be accomplished in multiple ways. Pearl market did it right. 50% of the vanilla BF3 maps did it horribly HORRIBLYYYY wrong. It is the main contributing factor to me personally being unable to play those maps seriously.


Edit: And no. That one guy in the helicopter is not a viable reason to says it's balanced.

we once had ucav and mortars to deal with that, now no more.

Even those, back then, were not sufficient.

If the rooftops miles up in the air with only a ladder to access them (or, sometimes, only accessible with aircrafts) is DICE's definition of "vertical gameplay", then it needs to go.


Yes I agree, but I find this stupid verticality to be much less of a problem on Zavod than on any other vanilla map. Look at SoS, Dawnbreaker or Rogue, where you can access the whole battlefield with a beacon from above. Or Lancang Dam and Hainan, where it gives access to a key flag. On Zavod at least you are exposed on the middle roofs, and from the highest roofs you can not see the flags below. Also the flags E, F , B and A can neither be attacked or defended from these points. They still offer advantages, but compared to the stupid vanilla maps it can be dealt with. Verticality is not a problem on Zavod when you compare it to the absurd levels of Flood Zone and similar. Verticality is the key thing where DICE failed. I hope they sack the map designers for BF5 or deport them to Visceral.

CobaltRose

I'll be there... around every corner... in every empty room...

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29

Saturday, September 5th 2015, 12:39am

"Vertical gameplay"

Edit: And no. That one guy in the helicopter is not a viable reason to says it's balanced.
we once had ucav and mortars to deal with that, now no more.
Even those, back then, were not sufficient.
TBH Zavod's two one-way permanent rooftops aren't that hard to clear. Hell, back when the rooftops were accessible on TDM it wasn't that hard to UCAV the whole thing clear. Also de4pends on who that one guy in the heli is. If it's me, you're fucked. If it's marble, they're fucked.
Hmm, I sense a lot of hate towards Zavod as a map in general. Why is that, that Viper, CobaltRose and C0llis seem to avoid it, while I think Zavod is the best vanilla map in this game.
I've had my share of fun moments on Zavod, but more often than not it's condensed paranoia fuel for me. The trees make for a lot of one-way cover (people end up seeing me just fine when I can't see shit), and since I play mostly infantry only, the only way anyone can cap a point that isn't C or D is to either mount a full-team zerg rush or plant a spawn beacon somewhere in the ~100m of dead space between the objectives and the north/south boundaries of the map.
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

Memorable Quotes

I once tried to burn a bridge, but due to the half-assed levolution implementation it kept standing up just fine.

Compared to the MTAR, the PDR has the TTK of your average pack of cigarettes.

The World Champion, on the Tactical Light:
"Oh don't mind me, I'm just out of ammo and I'll just POCKET SUN!!!!"

What can't be changed can be banned.

I'm completely serious. Well, seriously insane actually :P

If only more people left the wheel chair, adjustable hospital bed, and crutches behind and played HC. (aka Regen, Minimap, Killcam)

Natalia Poklonskaya:
Putin the cute in prosecute since 2014.

I can't look at my own avatar without having to pee. GG Me. GG.

I swear to god if you reply with a picture of the AEK I'll mail you a buttplug shaped like one.

The one time when "it's only three inches" is a good thing.

How do you guys control your FAMAS burst length since it fires its mag in just 1,5 seconds))
I consider each magazine a burst. :/

This is Symthic, we don't do "feels" around here ;)



ViperFTW

Suidae cathexis

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Posts: 9,736

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30

Saturday, September 5th 2015, 1:02am

TBH Zavod's two one-way permanent rooftops aren't that hard to clear. Hell, back when the rooftops were accessible on TDM it wasn't that hard to UCAV the whole thing clear. Also de4pends on who that one guy in the heli is. If it's me, you're fucked. If it's marble, they're fucked.


Strongly disagree...

  1. Even if you could UCAV the roofs clear (you could, I'll not deny that), that's no longer an option. Honestly: One launched per 60 seconds didn't make it that effective an option beforehand!
  2. You've missed the point on the helicopter. The heli should be engaging enemy aircraft and herding enemy armour, if the heli is having to go back to clear the fucking rooftops every few seconds (as often becomes the case on Zavod) then its effectively removed from doing things that will actually have a positive impact on its own team as opposed to essentially being tethered to one area of the map.
Fuck "Vertical gameplay"! I liked it a lot better in games like Bad Company 2, where people on the roof was the fucking exception, not the fucking rule! Hell, even BF3 was fairly tame in the roof camping department!!! In BF4 its like half the enemy fucking team are some sort of inverse deep sea creature: The explode if they go BELOW a certain depth...

Everybody's Favourite Worthless Support and LMG Fan! :thumbsup:



Song currently stuck in my head is: Red Cold River by Breaking Benjamin!