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21

Saturday, August 15th 2015, 7:30am

Goddamnit, Sun.

Anyway, I actually do need ideas on what you think the battlefield community in general still needs help understanding.


I compiled a list of 30 most common myths about vehicle gameplay a year ago. Basically there's a lot of unexplained mechanics that a lot of people misunderstand (or if you're on Battlelog forums, refuse to understand). I stopped working on it because I couldn't find the time to get proof for everything.

Here's the list, direct from my old notes:

Spoiler Spoiler

1. Prox Scan is bugged/doesn't work.

Prox Scan works, but not to the same extent as it did in BF3.

BF4 Ultimate Tank Gunner Guide Pt 2 - VOIP, Rocketry, Long Range (with Voiceover) - YouTube


2. Reactive Armor protects you from damage, or is supposed to.

Reactive Armor does nothing to protect you from damage, and is not supposed to. Reactive Armor in BF4 is nothing like Reactive Armor in BF3.

Quick Tip #17 - Reactive Armor and Mobility Hits - Battlefield 4 - English - YouTube

Basicfield: Armored Warfare - Battlefield 4 - YouTube


3. Smokescreen breaks locks, like it did in BF3.

Smokescreen does nothing against a lock on and is very different than its counterpart in BF3

Battlefield 4 | Smoke & Glitch Shot | Tank Guide #3 - YouTube

Against the Grain: Armor and Smoke - Battlefield 4 - YouTube


4. Side and rear hits guarantee you crits

Hitting a vehicle in the side or rear will not guarantee you crits

Quick Tip #17 - Reactive Armor and Mobility Hits - Battlefield 4 - English - YouTube

Basicfield: Armored Warfare - Battlefield 4 - YouTube

[BF4] Armor Academy 1: Achieving Max Damage and Abusing Angles - YouTube


5. Facing the front of your IFV and Tank square to the front lowers your damage taken to minimum

Facing the front of your IFV square to the enemy is asking for a mobility kill.

Quick Tip #17 - Reactive Armor and Mobility Hits - Battlefield 4 - English - YouTube

Basicfield: Armored Warfare - Battlefield 4 - YouTube

[BF4] Armor Academy 1: Achieving Max Damage and Abusing Angles - YouTube


6. The Gunner Remote .50 cal is worse than a pistol.

The .50 cal has stats closer to that of a shitty carbine. Generally, you'll do better with the .50 cal at medium range, and possibly long range depending on what pistol you're using for comparison.

BF4 Ultimate Tank Gunner Guide Pt 2 - VOIP, Rocketry, Long Range (with Voiceover) - YouTube


7. TOWs are dumb fire only.

All TOWs, including the ones on boats, choppers, IFVs, and stationary emplacements, can lock on laser designated targets.


8. The AMTRAC's only weapon is the grenade launcher.

The AMTRAC comes with a secondary weapon: the .50 cal.


9. Sounds like crits are based on random chance.

Crits generally depend on two things, critical threshold and damage.

Quick Tip #17 - Reactive Armor and Mobility Hits - Battlefield 4 - English - YouTube

Basicfield: Armored Warfare - Battlefield 4 - YouTube


10. Seat switching gives you infinite CMs and is cheating.

Seat switching can give you a second or third CM usually, and Alan Kertz said just before BF4 was released that he did not consider it an exploit.


https://twitter.com/Demize99/status/379218829072941056


11. You can only have one of your side gunners in a boat/transport see the enemy at any one time

Depending on faction, your side gunners in boats and transports may or may not be able to fire at the same target.

Current Minigun Convergence and TV Missile Offset - YouTube


12. Staff shells give you a big advantage in armour vs armour battles.


Staff Shells used to be highly effective in head-to-head armour battles. This is no longer the case.
[BF4] Doubling Tank DPS with seat switching and other assorted vehicle tests - YouTube

13. Staff Shells give ZERO advantage to armor vs armor battles.
[BF4] Doubling Tank DPS with seat switching and other assorted vehicle tests - YouTube


14. Hand flares work against lock on weapons.

Hand flares do not work against lockons.

Battlefield 4 Mythbusters - Episode 8 - YouTube


15. Javelins and LAWs perform top attacks on vehicles, and therefore get top attack bonus.

Javelins and LAWs are fixed-damage weapons, and do not get bonuses from hitting vehicles from the top.



16. MBTLAWs do more damage when fired at the sides and rear of vehicles.

LAWs do not get damage bonuses at all.


17. All weapons do bonus damage when laser designated.

LAWs do not do bonus damage when laser designated, and do not do bonus damage under any circumstances. SRAWs gain a very small damage increase when designated, but otherwise behaves and does damage similarly to a normal SRAW.


18. The HE Shell has the largest splash radius and is the best against infantry.

The HE shell has a smaller splash radius than AP and does poorly against infantry.


19. AP in AP Shell stands for Armor Piercing, therefore it is the best against armoured targets.

AP Shell does the same damage per shot as Sabot, and less than HE. It is the most effective versus infantry.


20. Well, in real life, tanks work this way blah blah blah


21. Prox Scan only scans in the direction you face.

Prox Scan works 360 degrees no matter what direction you happen to be facing.

BF4 Ultimate Tank Gunner Guide Pt 2 - VOIP, Rocketry, Long Range (with Voiceover) - YouTube


22. Vehicle play is exactly the same whether you're on console or PC.

No, it's not.


23. There is no reason to pick APFSDS over HE if you can compensate for drop.

APFSDS has less spread than HE and does more damage against vehicles.


24. All the countries' vehicles are the same.

Most of them have have significant differences.

Attack Heli: The Battlefield Franchise Attack Heli Comparison - Part 1 Agility - BF 2/3/4/BC2 - ENG - YouTube

IFVs: Bug Report APC/ IFV - crosshairs, headshot multipliers, double TOW and more - Battlefield 4 - YouTube

Tank: Tank Tutorial #2 Ramming - YouTube


25. The US Tank, the M1 Abrams, is bad for everything.

The M1 Abrams is good at ramming/flipping other tanks.

Tank Tutorial #2 Ramming - YouTube


26. MBT LAWs bypass APS.

MBT LAWs used to bypass APS, but they no longer do.


27. APS blocks everything/APS blocks nothing!

APS only blocks most things. Notable exceptions include TV Missiles, UCAVs, C4, and Cruise Missiles.

TV Missile/APS Test, June 4 2014 - YouTube


APS is also notoriously unreliable when the vehicle is moving.


28. You can guide 2 separate SRAWs/Javelins in the air at the same time. Fire, reload, fire, guide both to target.

You used to be able to do this - now you can't.


29. C4 Jeeps will always explode in one hit from a RPG or tank shell.

Quadbikes and dirt bikes will explode in one direct hit from any main shell. Full health jeeps will not, unless you manage to score a hit on the C4 placed on it.


30. You don't need to care about spread while in vehicles. Just hold down the trigger!


31. You need to hold the lock after firing at a laser designated target.


32. Staff Shells cause critical hits.


I tried to keep it mainly to technical/provable stuff

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "nosedigger" (Aug 15th 2015, 7:48am)


Nick 30075

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22

Saturday, August 15th 2015, 7:39am

Goddamnit, Sun.

Anyway, I actually do need ideas on what you think the battlefield community in general still needs help understanding.

The difference between the words "unbalanced" and "imbalanced." I'm sick of this "hurr durr unbalanced teams" nonsense.
Emperor Nick of the Cult of Defibrillation
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I'm basically just a degenerate weeb who doesn't post much nowadays.

I'm secretly Old Man Symthic

Siggy thingies


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Words of Wisdom (not really)

Quoted from "Blue Panda"

You're fedorable :love:

Quoted from "ToTheSun!"

I have the highest postcount. Nick doesn't count.

Quoted

23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm -
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Okay
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm stabbing everyone
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Bye guys
23:44 Nick: *flips table*
23:44 Legion: Bye, happy stabbing
23:44 *** Lt_Col_Jesus quit (Quit: off to murder the public at large).

Quoted

10:41 LB: You just...reanimated Steve Jobs.
10:41 Dice: Well that would be unfortunate, I was just getting used to him being dead.

Quoted from "Pheozero"

... fuck. Damn you hindsight!

Quoted

23:58 Failure117: CAUSE IM FREEE
23:58 Nick: AS A BIIIIRD NOW
23:58 Failure117: FREEE OF NICK'S WORM RAPE

Quoted

ViperFTW: HEY LOOK
ViperFTW: AN ALIEN LASER FISH THE SIZE OF THE SUN
ViperFTW: I WANT TO SWAT IT WITH MY COMICLY LARGE SWORD
ViperFTW: WITH
ViperFTW: THIS
ViperFTW: AS
ViperFTW: MY
ViperFTW: FUUUUCKING SOUNDTRACK :DDDD
(the album in question)


ToTheSun!

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23

Saturday, August 15th 2015, 11:56am

The difference between the words "unbalanced" and "imbalanced." I'm sick of this "hurr durr unbalanced teams" nonsense.

Not sure if serious.

Goddamnit, Sun.

Anyway, I actually do need ideas on what you think the battlefield community in general still needs help understanding.


I compiled a list of 30 most common myths about vehicle gameplay a year ago. Basically there's a lot of unexplained mechanics that a lot of people misunderstand (or if you're on Battlelog forums, refuse to understand). I stopped working on it because I couldn't find the time to get proof for everything.

Here's the list, direct from my old notes:

Spoiler Spoiler

1. Prox Scan is bugged/doesn't work.

Prox Scan works, but not to the same extent as it did in BF3.

BF4 Ultimate Tank Gunner Guide Pt 2 - VOIP, Rocketry, Long Range (with Voiceover) - YouTube


2. Reactive Armor protects you from damage, or is supposed to.

Reactive Armor does nothing to protect you from damage, and is not supposed to. Reactive Armor in BF4 is nothing like Reactive Armor in BF3.

Quick Tip #17 - Reactive Armor and Mobility Hits - Battlefield 4 - English - YouTube

Basicfield: Armored Warfare - Battlefield 4 - YouTube


3. Smokescreen breaks locks, like it did in BF3.

Smokescreen does nothing against a lock on and is very different than its counterpart in BF3

Battlefield 4 | Smoke & Glitch Shot | Tank Guide #3 - YouTube

Against the Grain: Armor and Smoke - Battlefield 4 - YouTube


4. Side and rear hits guarantee you crits

Hitting a vehicle in the side or rear will not guarantee you crits

Quick Tip #17 - Reactive Armor and Mobility Hits - Battlefield 4 - English - YouTube

Basicfield: Armored Warfare - Battlefield 4 - YouTube

[BF4] Armor Academy 1: Achieving Max Damage and Abusing Angles - YouTube


5. Facing the front of your IFV and Tank square to the front lowers your damage taken to minimum

Facing the front of your IFV square to the enemy is asking for a mobility kill.

Quick Tip #17 - Reactive Armor and Mobility Hits - Battlefield 4 - English - YouTube

Basicfield: Armored Warfare - Battlefield 4 - YouTube

[BF4] Armor Academy 1: Achieving Max Damage and Abusing Angles - YouTube


6. The Gunner Remote .50 cal is worse than a pistol.

The .50 cal has stats closer to that of a shitty carbine. Generally, you'll do better with the .50 cal at medium range, and possibly long range depending on what pistol you're using for comparison.

BF4 Ultimate Tank Gunner Guide Pt 2 - VOIP, Rocketry, Long Range (with Voiceover) - YouTube


7. TOWs are dumb fire only.

All TOWs, including the ones on boats, choppers, IFVs, and stationary emplacements, can lock on laser designated targets.


8. The AMTRAC's only weapon is the grenade launcher.

The AMTRAC comes with a secondary weapon: the .50 cal.


9. Sounds like crits are based on random chance.

Crits generally depend on two things, critical threshold and damage.

Quick Tip #17 - Reactive Armor and Mobility Hits - Battlefield 4 - English - YouTube

Basicfield: Armored Warfare - Battlefield 4 - YouTube


10. Seat switching gives you infinite CMs and is cheating.

Seat switching can give you a second or third CM usually, and Alan Kertz said just before BF4 was released that he did not consider it an exploit.


https://twitter.com/Demize99/status/379218829072941056


11. You can only have one of your side gunners in a boat/transport see the enemy at any one time

Depending on faction, your side gunners in boats and transports may or may not be able to fire at the same target.

Current Minigun Convergence and TV Missile Offset - YouTube


12. Staff shells give you a big advantage in armour vs armour battles.


Staff Shells used to be highly effective in head-to-head armour battles. This is no longer the case.
[BF4] Doubling Tank DPS with seat switching and other assorted vehicle tests - YouTube

13. Staff Shells give ZERO advantage to armor vs armor battles.
[BF4] Doubling Tank DPS with seat switching and other assorted vehicle tests - YouTube


14. Hand flares work against lock on weapons.

Hand flares do not work against lockons.

Battlefield 4 Mythbusters - Episode 8 - YouTube


15. Javelins and LAWs perform top attacks on vehicles, and therefore get top attack bonus.

Javelins and LAWs are fixed-damage weapons, and do not get bonuses from hitting vehicles from the top.



16. MBTLAWs do more damage when fired at the sides and rear of vehicles.

LAWs do not get damage bonuses at all.


17. All weapons do bonus damage when laser designated.

LAWs do not do bonus damage when laser designated, and do not do bonus damage under any circumstances. SRAWs gain a very small damage increase when designated, but otherwise behaves and does damage similarly to a normal SRAW.


18. The HE Shell has the largest splash radius and is the best against infantry.

The HE shell has a smaller splash radius than AP and does poorly against infantry.


19. AP in AP Shell stands for Armor Piercing, therefore it is the best against armoured targets.

AP Shell does the same damage per shot as Sabot, and less than HE. It is the most effective versus infantry.


20. Well, in real life, tanks work this way blah blah blah


21. Prox Scan only scans in the direction you face.

Prox Scan works 360 degrees no matter what direction you happen to be facing.

BF4 Ultimate Tank Gunner Guide Pt 2 - VOIP, Rocketry, Long Range (with Voiceover) - YouTube


22. Vehicle play is exactly the same whether you're on console or PC.

No, it's not.


23. There is no reason to pick APFSDS over HE if you can compensate for drop.

APFSDS has less spread than HE and does more damage against vehicles.


24. All the countries' vehicles are the same.

Most of them have have significant differences.

Attack Heli: The Battlefield Franchise Attack Heli Comparison - Part 1 Agility - BF 2/3/4/BC2 - ENG - YouTube

IFVs: Bug Report APC/ IFV - crosshairs, headshot multipliers, double TOW and more - Battlefield 4 - YouTube

Tank: Tank Tutorial #2 Ramming - YouTube


25. The US Tank, the M1 Abrams, is bad for everything.

The M1 Abrams is good at ramming/flipping other tanks.

Tank Tutorial #2 Ramming - YouTube


26. MBT LAWs bypass APS.

MBT LAWs used to bypass APS, but they no longer do.


27. APS blocks everything/APS blocks nothing!

APS only blocks most things. Notable exceptions include TV Missiles, UCAVs, C4, and Cruise Missiles.

TV Missile/APS Test, June 4 2014 - YouTube


APS is also notoriously unreliable when the vehicle is moving.


28. You can guide 2 separate SRAWs/Javelins in the air at the same time. Fire, reload, fire, guide both to target.

You used to be able to do this - now you can't.


29. C4 Jeeps will always explode in one hit from a RPG or tank shell.

Quadbikes and dirt bikes will explode in one direct hit from any main shell. Full health jeeps will not, unless you manage to score a hit on the C4 placed on it.


30. You don't need to care about spread while in vehicles. Just hold down the trigger!


31. You need to hold the lock after firing at a laser designated target.


32. Staff Shells cause critical hits.


I tried to keep it mainly to technical/provable stuff

Very good post.

VincentNZ

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Saturday, August 15th 2015, 1:58pm

I would like to see a video about map design, vehicular balance (both intervehicular and infantry/vehicle) and vehicle count and spawns.

And what I want to see or hear the most, are opinions about each of these, I do not need to watch videos of commented gameplay, I can do that myself. Educated opinions and feelings is what I want, so that I know what others think about the game. True facts of thruth if you'd like.

Also answers to questions relating to the topic of the video. Also more polarizing and opinionated. Like:
Why do maps need to be so large, when the routes between all flags are just apocalyptic wasteland?
Why do there need to be jets and aerial vehicles on any map in large abundance, while there rarely is an MAA?

And so on, you get the tone. Rants are good as long as they are educated. If something is not right in this game for you, call it out. The usual feel-good backrubbing tone of youtube videos on gaming is rather tiresome by now.

Oh and yeah since we are on symthic here, stats and voices from the community, maybe even in TS form. Like a Viper ranting about how much he hates certain weapons or aspects of gameplay, or me about how awful map design generally is in BF4.

Other than that maybe tactical gameplay that is commented. As why do I turn right here, although the fighting is to my left and so forth.

Nick 30075

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Saturday, August 15th 2015, 4:22pm

The difference between the words "unbalanced" and "imbalanced." I'm sick of this "hurr durr unbalanced teams" nonsense.

Not sure if serious.

Somewhat. I'd like to see some standards for chatbox etiquette.
Emperor Nick of the Cult of Defibrillation
Sith Deity of Thread-Killing


I'm basically just a degenerate weeb who doesn't post much nowadays.

I'm secretly Old Man Symthic

Siggy thingies


Gaming Stuff


Words of Wisdom (not really)

Quoted from "Blue Panda"

You're fedorable :love:

Quoted from "ToTheSun!"

I have the highest postcount. Nick doesn't count.

Quoted

23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm -
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Okay
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm stabbing everyone
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Bye guys
23:44 Nick: *flips table*
23:44 Legion: Bye, happy stabbing
23:44 *** Lt_Col_Jesus quit (Quit: off to murder the public at large).

Quoted

10:41 LB: You just...reanimated Steve Jobs.
10:41 Dice: Well that would be unfortunate, I was just getting used to him being dead.

Quoted from "Pheozero"

... fuck. Damn you hindsight!

Quoted

23:58 Failure117: CAUSE IM FREEE
23:58 Nick: AS A BIIIIRD NOW
23:58 Failure117: FREEE OF NICK'S WORM RAPE

Quoted

ViperFTW: HEY LOOK
ViperFTW: AN ALIEN LASER FISH THE SIZE OF THE SUN
ViperFTW: I WANT TO SWAT IT WITH MY COMICLY LARGE SWORD
ViperFTW: WITH
ViperFTW: THIS
ViperFTW: AS
ViperFTW: MY
ViperFTW: FUUUUCKING SOUNDTRACK :DDDD
(the album in question)


MrT3a

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Sunday, August 30th 2015, 9:44pm


What's "Pyramid balance"?

Assuming you're not being sarcastic: A few items and tactics being on top of the pyramid, dominating all others. Pyramid usually has multiple tiers.

Anyway, I think a more baseline discussion of different kinds of difficulty and balancing models and why they are or aren't suited for Battlefield would be fine.
Balancing discussion can basically come down to how far snowballing should be a thing. Guns that require more skill, a.k.a. a player that has the innate advantage of skill, being better than "beginner" guns; vehicles on flags in addition to more spawn points and more options for entering combat etc.

Inspirations:
Perfect Imbalance - Why Unbalanced Design Creates Balanced Play - Extra Credits - YouTube
Counter Play - Making Multiplayer Fun for the Opponent - Extra Credits - YouTube (suppression and shotguns match this pretty well as they emphasize positioning, teamplay and gadgetry as counterplay instead of just shooting better, while also adding an extra level of counterplay against snipers)
Extra Credits: Easy Games - YouTube
Depth vs Complexity - Why More Features Don't Make a Better Game - Extra Credits - YouTube

Oh, and I think the argumantation's end could be "gameplay mechanics and changes need to be properly communicated to the community so they can make informed decisions, understanding the mechanics"


Just watched the videos, they're pretty good ^^
Stats thingy

Quotes of wisdom (maybe)


I'm a battlefield player, good sir. I don't play metro.

PC is no longer PC master race. It's PC mustard race, because consoles need to ketchup :'D

DICE gave so much into making commander better, but lemmings be lemmings I guess.

As a good guy that don't want to use overly glitched weapons, I'll quit using the MTAR and switch to the ACWR until it's fixed

The world needs more people like you


+1, I think we're all in agreement that more MrT3as would be an awesome thing :love:
Although if that was the case they'd use up so much of the world's awesome that there'd be none left for the rest of us! :D

yes, I know, I'm a big-ass hypocrite

IG

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Sunday, August 30th 2015, 10:41pm

Why is Marbleduck Youtube Team not a registered trademark?

ToTheSun!

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Sunday, August 30th 2015, 10:54pm

Why is Marbleduck Youtube Team not a registered trademark?

"You can use TM on any mark that you wish to designate as a trademark. No registration is required, and in most states this will actually give you some "common law" trademark rights.

You can use the "R" symbol only once you obtain a federal trademark registration from the US Patent and Trademark Office. The process of applying for a federal trademark takes about a year, and during the application process you may NOT use the "R" symbol (doing so is illegal). You must continue to use nothing or "TM" until the federal registration is issued."

IG

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Sunday, August 30th 2015, 11:04pm

Why is Marbleduck Youtube Team not a registered trademark?

"You can use TM on any mark that you wish to designate as a trademark. No registration is required, and in most states this will actually give you some "common law" trademark rights.

You can use the "R" symbol only once you obtain a federal trademark registration from the US Patent and Trademark Office. The process of applying for a federal trademark takes about a year, and during the application process you may NOT use the "R" symbol (doing so is illegal). You must continue to use nothing or "TM" until the federal registration is issued."

I am under the assumption that a name like Marbleduck Youtube Team™ having the quality Marbleduck­® brand in it has submitted the necessary documents to the US Patent and Trademark Office.

ToTheSun!

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Sunday, August 30th 2015, 11:37pm

I am under the assumption that a name like Marbleduck Youtube Team? having the quality Marbleduck­® brand in it has submitted the necessary documents to the US Patent and Trademark Office.

Not for the team's name, which we did not deem necessary.

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