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  • "sirjoshuaj1" started this thread

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: Jun 25th 2015

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Thursday, June 25th 2015, 12:15pm

Proper Application of Weapon Attachments

I recently was comparing the stats one of my favorite assault rifles - the M16A4 with different configurations, namely: naked, with heavy barrel, with stubby, and with HB + stubby. The results - of course - made sense. Heavy barrel decreased spread while increasing vertical recoil. Stubby reduced spread increase per shot, but slowed down spread decrease. Great.

My question is, how do I know how much is too much, of anything? (V recoil, spread, etc) I don't want to go by 'feel'. Now obviously, different weapon attachments may be necessary for different engagement distances. I am primarily concerned with typical infantry situations, e.g. close - medium range found on most rush maps/lockers conquest. How do I take what Symthic tells me, and apply it to the weapons?


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Thursday, June 25th 2015, 2:07pm

You could always regonize how "bad" weapon X (just some weapon you use) is and then use weapon X's accuracy plots to compare it against weapon Y (same or different weapon, with or without attachments). It gives you a quick visual way to see a generic "how much worse/better" the recoil and spread is and then you can judge if it is too much based on your experiences on weapon X.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included


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Thursday, June 25th 2015, 6:10pm

V-Rec degrees per second is a good way to find out how much vertical recoil is too much for you. By calculating the amount of total vertical recoil in degrees the weapon will kick per second, it combines V-Rec, FSM and RoF all into one stat much easier to compare. Then after you've calculated this, go to the test range and see what's too high for you and what you can manage.

Accuracy plots are a good general guide for the effects of spread, but if you want something much more specific use Hitrater.

But mainly it comes down to experience.
something something Model 8 bestgun

How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:

Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

I... I...



In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.

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Friday, June 26th 2015, 5:16am

But mainly it comes down to experience.

In the end it always comes back to this. The best you can do is become as intimately familiar as possible with spread/recoil effects, attachment effects, and all that, then apply that knowledge through actually playing.

I pretty much universally use HBAR/Stubby, so when I tried Gun Master and ran into a bunch of Comps, Angled, Ergo, etc, I definitely, no question felt the difference in performance right away. So don't worry that these sorts of effects are so small you may not feel them. You will.

Just be informed and make sound decisions. After all, that's what Battlefield is all about. ^^
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