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81

Tuesday, January 27th 2015, 11:40am

BF:H might have the solution : you gather money, you unlock what you want.
Do the same with points.
No unlockable accessory should give unfair advantage.
Base weapons should be fully "competitive" from scratch and naked.
All unlockable weapons should be niche.
Each faction have reskins of the same weapons, except maybe for niches ones.

Additional and not well thought ideas :
Once you unlock 8x scope, you've unlocked it for all weapons.
Same with all accessories
Once you've unlocked a weapon for faction, you've unlocked it's equivalent for all factions

That sounds pretty good to me. I definitely think the idea of only needing to get an optic once is a good idea for the consistency that would provide.

they had this in bad company 2, and i'm pretty sure there is a reason as to why they have never anymore implemented that into a battlefield game.
"I'm just a loot whore."


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bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

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ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


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82

Tuesday, January 27th 2015, 12:29pm

An 'unlock system' is not inherently wrong in itself, its success greatly depends on how it is laid out and what are the affected items. The current system is far from ideal though. All accessories shouldn't be unlocked through a linear progression simply because it is imbalanced by definition. A player not having access to the compensator is at a disadvantage compared to a player that does.
Weapons are entirely different, because theoretically the first weapon unlocked shoudln't be weaker than the last, thus not necessarily creating an imbalance between two players but more of an equal diversity which for the sake of variety isn't necessarily bad even though it still is arbitrary content gating.

I had this idea for a while, inspired by the unlock system of the first black ops (get money -> spend on whatever you want even tho weapons were still rank-locked).
What about having a unified currency that can be used to unlock everything from attachments to gadgets. In-game the points you earn by doing things are directly tied to your 'money' pool, meaning you get 100 points for a kill in-match you get 100 spendable points in the 'store'. Take out levelling through xp and instead make a player progress through ranks by time played. All weapons and gadgets and attachments are buyable by default.

Instead, use camos and maybe reskins as rewards for challanges like getting 10, 20, 100 kills. Things that are purely cosmetical.
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83

Tuesday, January 27th 2015, 12:35pm

it could- would definitely work, but i think that that idea should be applied with limitations, if you would unlock anything you want whenever you want, less people would play with all the weapons for a long time, but everyone would just get enough points to get 4 accessories(eg:muzzle brake red dot grip and laser) and leave the gun in the dust forever, instead, with a system that has the freedom of choice, but only limited to class of accessory, i see it being more useful for dice and EA, which also means higher chances of seeing in a future battlefield.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif




VincentNZ

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84

Tuesday, January 27th 2015, 2:12pm

I still think that each attachment should be unlocked for each weapon individually. It might put you at a slight disadvantage when using weapons like the M-Tar, where a Compensator is necessary but it also forces you to use the weapon with less than ideal setups therefore knowing it better. That being said, most players do not even know what each attachment really does and strap on whatever they want, so no real harm done here.

I find the BF4 concept to be complex and confusing at first, as you have class unlocks, weapon unlocks, and attachment unlocks all differently, on the other hand though it creates incentives to play all weapons. Plus we have battlepacks that give attachments as well. Whatever weapon I want to play know, I have so many attachments through battlepacks that I can always equip a decent sight, green laser, and grip of my choice. Additionally the unlock system provides a reason to use DMRs, PDWs and Shotguns, because you get the illusion of progress with each weapon. Without unlocks or a system where "buy" your favourite weapon with attachments, people will gravitate even more to the FOTM-weapons and you will see even less underused or underbalanced weaponry. Right now I am playing the DMRs, I would not bother with them and just use my AEK and my favourite Carbine.

All in all by creating an unlock system and this incentive you broaden the field of used weapons, therefore justifying having more than a couple in the first place and it deepens the understanding of the average player of the game. I.e. the more you use different weapons the more you know how weapons behave etc.

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85

Tuesday, January 27th 2015, 3:47pm

@Vincent

Ok, but i personally don't see the incentive through attachment grinding as a positive. The unlock system should come after the process of balancing is done and should be in no absoulte way be part of it. Contrary to popular belief a weapon being underused does not necessarily mean that such weapon is underpowered and in itself isn't necesssarily a bad thing either. Furthemore what you describe as a naturally occurring consequnce of this unlock system is personal an not true for everyone, like me for instance. What i see is just arbitrary gating.

I may be extreme on this subject but i personally find this kind of unlock system obsolete and excessively invasive.

@iota
It seems to me you're confusing debatebly sub-optimal attachment design with unlock system issues.
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86

Friday, January 30th 2015, 10:08am

Map design in Battlefield 4 is shite compared to other battlefield titles, I personally put it down to the fact the Gustav Halling wasn't involved in the map design for BF4, he might take criticism for things he done wrong over the years in Bf but in retrospect one of the things he got right was map design.
In BF4 it seems like they attempted to tick every possible box and relied far too much on "telemetry" when it came to map layout, the end result are maps with no discernible frontlines, and all I basically see are mini TDM pockets dotted around maps and players not having a clue where to go.
As regards "verticality" on maps like Strike at Karkand in BF3 or Zavod 311 in BF4 there are roofs that have a strategic purpose, but having nearly every roof accessible like in BF4 isn't a good idea as they become havens for every retard in the game. I played quite a few scrims where roofs were not accessible, and maps like Shanghai and Dawnbreaker were actually pretty intense, but when the same maps are played in pubs they are just a cluster fuck.

VincentNZ

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87

Friday, January 30th 2015, 12:15pm

@Spectre

Yeah I fully understand your point. I find an unlock system quite desirable in a game like BF4 which has a lot of options in gadgets, weapons and attachments, especially how they did here. It practically forces everyone to try out different setups. I would not even have minded to gate weapons even more, I find the unlock speed to fast, but I play a lot, too, so anyone with less dedication would have trouble then.

However you are right that underpowered is not a bad thing. Niche weapons still have their use, but I think BF4 is at a loss here, because carbines are all-purpose weapons and all-kit. They offer everything the niche weapons have (PDWs included) and the drawbacks are minor. But that is another story.

Still I think that with less unlocks or even no master dogtags, DICE would create a less desirable game in terms of diversity. Then you would not need half the weapons or gadgets. The generic high RPM, accurate, and jack-of-all-trades weapons alogn with a shotgun and a DMR. Add three BAs and it would be more than enough.

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Friday, January 30th 2015, 1:17pm

The checkbox approach like "We need something for vehicles" and "we need something for infantry" is going through all of the maps. I dont know if I like it, but I know that it worked out in Final Stand but definitely not in "Giants of Karelia" (Personal Opinion: I just dont like this map).

The sad point about this approach is, that the maps are rated with to these checkboxes. Last time I saw a video of "Westie" where he is rating his favorite DLCs. I definitely arent going to watch him ever again, simply due to the arguments he stated. -> Rep-Level: -9k IMHO.
still playin' Motorstorm

VincentNZ

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89

Friday, January 30th 2015, 1:42pm

BF4 was so disappointing to me in terms of map design that I just crave for them to remaster BF3 maps for the next title. Putting ten skyscrpers onto a map in between straight broadways, does not make it urban warfare to me. I would want a more infantry focused game, where infantry can actually move around the map alongside armour and without constant threat from above, be it roofs or aerial vehicles.
The maps would be smaller and vehicles would not spawn as flag assets, the number of vehicles would be reduced, and most buildings would only be partially destructible, Verticality would be reduced to more reasonable levels. But one can only dream.

J0hn-Stuart-Mill

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  • "J0hn-Stuart-Mill" started this thread

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90

Friday, January 30th 2015, 10:17pm

BF4 was so disappointing to me in terms of map design


Explain how BF3's maps were better than BF4's?

I think BF4's average map level of quality is by far the best in the series, with a great mix of vehicle, infantry and destruction on nearly every flag. IMO BF3's aftermath maps are the only stand outs from that game. (Also Bandar, and Armored Shield)
My father used to say, We find our true friends on the Battlefield! - J0hn Snow