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  • "DigitalRenegade2016" started this thread

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Thursday, September 4th 2014, 1:19pm

When is HBar ever REALLY necessary?

At the ranges I feel heavy barrel is truly necessary, I feel I won't be engaging targets. ARs, with .1 spread? Carbines and LMGs with .15? Most PDWs would benefit, however their min damage doesn't make it worth it. EXCEPT with the PDW-R, when is the HBar going to make a difference that warrants the extra recoil? Or do people use it almost solely for the moving spread reduction?

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Thursday, September 4th 2014, 1:58pm

Well after the CTE patch it will be even more usefull so I would say there is no reason to not use Hbar on low rpm weapons. I also run it with M416 and angled, but that's just me.

Edit: Use it with anything you would use past 50m and you can control recoil with. ie. M60, RPK, M416.
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Thursday, September 4th 2014, 3:47pm

You're asking the wrong question. It's not about when it's necessary. It's about when the recoil increase it gives is detrimental to your own performance. Some guns need a compensator, period. That decision is already made for the player. In guns with decent horizontal recoil, it's all about whether or not you feel comfortable with the vertical recoil after equipping the heavy barrel. Usually, i feel like anything over 0.32 x 1.5 vertical recoil is more than i like to put up with. However, this threshold depends mostly on the player's expectations and recoil control and may vary subjectively.

With the new patch coming, though, more guns might make the roster.

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Thursday, September 4th 2014, 3:50pm

Literally all the time. Every gun I use has a heavy barrel.

All of them.

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Thursday, September 4th 2014, 3:53pm

In short, it depends.

Really, it depends on many factors: playstyle, amount of practice, common engagement scenarios, etc.

In more detail, let's look at some numbers for my waifu MG4:



Simulated as in the brute-force thread and paced per optimal bursting. T100 is the mean time for causing 100 damage (= effective TTK). I put three dimensions in there:

1. MG4 comp+stubby vs. MG4 HB+angled (left and right panel)
2. Headshots vs. shots aimed at upper torso
3. 2-shot bursts vs. 5-shot bursts

Now comparing them you see that for torso shots up to 50 m, comp and HB are very close to each other for both 2- and 5-shot bursts. So, torso below 50 m, you gain nothing from HB. Beyond 50 m, the gains increase but here the perfect recoil control and aim locking assumptions are probably more unrealistic for HB than comp, so up to 60-70 m, one can do fine with comp.

However, the case is different if you play to get the headshots: HB extends the range where aiming at the head kills the guy faster than aiming at torso (see red-blue cross-overs, marked by arrows). In medium ranges (say 20-40 m), where one still really should go for head shots (or overcompensate head -> body during burst), HB helps vs. comp. But then again, with comp you'll have easier time staying on target.

There is also a slight transition in how long distances one can long bursts: 5-shot bursts kill faster than 2-shot bursts up to 25 m with comp but up to 30 m with HB.

So, pick comp for ease of use or HB for slightly increasing your effective range as well as up-close headshot accuracy but at a cost of a (small) usability handicap. The major CTE HB buff will help too.

Without recoil compensation (not shown here) comp and HB are identical for torso shots up to ~60 m whereas for headshots, HB is superior from ~25 m because even if the second shot of 2-shot bursts always misses, the better first-shot accuracy more than compensates for this.
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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "3VerstsNorth" (Sep 4th 2014, 4:03pm)


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Thursday, September 4th 2014, 6:19pm

It's not 'necessary', but I think it makes great sense to use HB on guns like the G36 or the Type 95. Low horizontal recoil (don't need compensator) and even with the HB vertical recoil is minimal.

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Thursday, September 4th 2014, 6:27pm

HB is great with PDWs that don't have massive horizontal recoil. I used HB with PDW-R and UMP-9. With the ump I also used ergo grip, I could dance areound all day and still have decent accuracy at medium ranges. And the recoil is not that bad with PDWs. Also the HB is really good with RPK-12, U-100 and AK-12, did wonders for me when I played with those weapons.

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Thursday, September 4th 2014, 7:26pm

I'm probably gonna get hammered for this, but the extra recoil doesn't justify the additional accuracy for my playstyle. I understand where you're coming from Digital. Console ranges are noticeably shorter than PC ranges. When I say ranges, I mean effective distance of where you can assuredly hit your target. It's no secret that mice enable much more efficient recoil control as opposed to analog sticks. I also know that analog sticks are adequate for recoil control and that anyone CAN control recoil on console.

However, I don't want to take the time to practice/ introduce more muscle memory. Yes, yes willful ignorance I know. I'm not proud of it, but at the same time its just a game. Right now, I just let the game's recoil and spread recovery systems control the recoil for me through tap-firing, which works for me. And I know this is contradictory, but I tap-fire and micro-burst all the time. The ideal form of shooting with a Heavy Barrel IS tap-firing if I am not mistaken. So, yeah. That's where I am. I'm a the point where I feel I do not need to improve myself any further. I am comfortable with my current skill set and I don't need to be the best. That's just me though.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


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Thursday, September 4th 2014, 7:33pm

I personally dislike the use of the HB on the pkp. I cant do fancy charts but in my two round bursts the second round "Feels" like it pulls further away than I like.

Love it on the Hog but thats prolly cuz itsa 1 round death machine

Weapons I dislike the HB on.
FAMAS
Ace 52 cqb
Scar H

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "MsMuchLove" (Sep 4th 2014, 7:41pm)


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Thursday, September 4th 2014, 7:54pm

I personally dislike the use of the HB on the pkp. I cant do fancy charts but in my two round bursts the second round "Feels" like it pulls further away than I like.

Love it on the Hog but thats prolly cuz itsa 1 round death machine

Weapons I dislike the HB on.
FAMAS
Ace 52 cqb
Scar H

Yeah, I can't do HB on the PKP either. Usually run MB and then stubby or ergo. Second and third rounds are provably more on target for me. It's just flat out easier and more consistent.

The only automatic that should have HB without argument is the PDW-R. I run HBAR on both the AKs, but those are burst weapons.