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NoctyrneSAGA

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51

Sunday, August 10th 2014, 2:51am

However, there have been serious issues with verticality in pretty much all BF titles (pod spinning anyone?), not because verticality is bad in and of itself, but because it's been exploitable (2142 pod spinning, chopper drop offs on inaccessible roofs), or because it makes for annoying play on some maps (Sunken Dragon, Dawnbreaker). BF devs seem to not learn how to avoid the pitfalls inherent in making very vertical spaces without leaving the cool aspects of it.

Not saying it should go, just saying it's strange they haven't learned their lesson yet.


Maybe because putting a ladder on everything kind of ruins the appearance of the map and/or does not make sense.

And another trouble is that the devs design the map one way. The players have different ideas.

It is highly likely they've already tried everything. They're not completely incompetent. Either they found it unfeasible or simply pointless.
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52

Sunday, August 10th 2014, 3:00am

However, there have been serious issues with verticality in pretty much all BF titles (pod spinning anyone?), not because verticality is bad in and of itself, but because it's been exploitable (2142 pod spinning, chopper drop offs on inaccessible roofs), or because it makes for annoying play on some maps (Sunken Dragon, Dawnbreaker). BF devs seem to not learn how to avoid the pitfalls inherent in making very vertical spaces without leaving the cool aspects of it.

Not saying it should go, just saying it's strange they haven't learned their lesson yet.


Maybe because putting a ladder on everything kind of ruins the appearance of the map and/or does not make sense.

And another trouble is that the devs design the map one way. The players have different ideas.

It is highly likely they've already tried everything. They're not completely incompetent. Either they found it unfeasible or simply pointless.
Well one solution that most definitely helps is dial-a-range airbust rounds (so that you can control how far over a edge something goes to a meaningful way). They had this in 2142, it helped vs roof campers tremendously. They have an airbursting weapon, they just chose not to include the ability to modify the range after you lase a surface. Maybe they didn't want to "OP" it since it's a support spammable weapon?

Also, I think it's pretty easy for them to add out of bounds volumes on any roofs they want.

Anyway, there is a lot that puzzles me coming from the perspective of a mature franchise that is 12 years old and whose core gameplay hasn't changed in that entire time. I don't think they are completely incompetent, but there is a clear failure to transfer lessons from one title dev cycle to the next.

NoctyrneSAGA

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53

Sunday, August 10th 2014, 3:23am

but there is a clear failure to transfer lessons from one title dev cycle to the next.


Well, how people spawn into jets would be a testament against that.

But I'll repeat what was said in another discussion about removing parachutes.

No matter what DICE does, players will always find a way to get to some godforsaken ledge above the map and set up their tent.
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54

Sunday, August 10th 2014, 11:35am

Additionally, why the hate on CS players?


They want Battlefield to play like CS.

See: LevelCrap trashes BF4 map design.

See: J0hn-Stuart-Mill explain why LevelCrap was stupid.

My understanding of that video was that LevelCap was criticizing Battlefield's map design for being extremely open and therefore inordinately difficult to approach in a thoughtful and tactical manner. I don't think he wants Battlefield to be like CS. The reason CS's Dust II was used as an example in that video is because it's one of the best-known maps in FPS history - probably the best-known map in FPS history - and it's an indisputable classic. I'm not saying Dust would make a great Battlefield map - it obviously wouldn't - but as a case study in FPS map design, it's definitely worth looking at.

NoctyrneSAGA

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Sunday, August 10th 2014, 5:03pm

My understanding of that video was that LevelCap was criticizing Battlefield's map design for being extremely open and therefore inordinately difficult to approach in a thoughtful and tactical manner.


From what I saw, and evidently J0hn as well, LevelCrap was criticizing Battlefield maps for being Battlefield maps. Wide and open with the possibility of an enounter from the enemy anywhere, any time, and from any direction. This isn't bad at all. It simply requires a different skill set. If LevelCrap is approaching this the same way he would for CS, then of course he should be having a hard time.

Openness is what Battlefield is all about and LevelCrap is saying it's bad.
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J0hn-Stuart-Mill

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Thursday, January 22nd 2015, 9:16am

Edit: Accidentally necro'd a thread. Please respond to this thread I made instead:

The Future of the Battlefield Concept:
My father used to say, We find our true friends on the Battlefield! - J0hn Snow

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "J0hn-Stuart-Mill" (Jan 22nd 2015, 9:25am)