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  • "Rezal" started this thread

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11

Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 7:13pm

I don't want to say this at this point. Just imagine your targets are increased in size whenever weapon A is used. An infinitely small target would still be infinitely small, though. The increase in size bought with lower damage, at similar rate of fire and equal ammo capacity.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rezal" (Jul 9th 2014, 7:19pm)


ToTheSun!

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Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 7:26pm

I cannot make an informed decision without the other variables.

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Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 8:09pm

Assume +20% effective target size for -20% or -30% damage. I have to keep this as abstract as possible.
[Aristocrat's Shoes]
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Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 8:21pm


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  • "Rezal" started this thread

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Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 8:47pm

It is not.
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Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 9:20pm

Seeing how well I've been doing with the G36C on the CTE (finally with functional sights), I'd say a factor of max. 1.5 is probably in order. Mathematical and philosophical musings can not, however, replace empirical testing of balancing.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 9:39pm

I'm still waiting for the punchline. Or the topic title is misleading
This is where I'm coming from: Clicky

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Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 10:32pm

Like SAGA said it depends on spread of B. If it nulllifies player's aiming skills then it doesn't matter how much dmg it does.


As Rezal said in the OP, both weapons have no spread.

What I meant was that most players in BF4 have shitty aim anyways in which case weapon A would be the better fit for them no matter how weak it was.








But back on topic, Demize has said before that most players only start feeling differences around 50% so the factor of 1.5 falls in line with that.

But personally I feel like testing directly proportional tradeoffs between engagement ease and damage before scaling any furher.
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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Jul 9th 2014, 10:42pm)


Zer0Cod3x

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Thursday, July 10th 2014, 4:17am

I think there's too many other variables that could affect this. If you're going off an opinion based answer, I would have to say yes, cause I personally have pretty horrible accuracy (around 14% normally) and a bigger target always helps me aim, and for some reason i do really well with all 700rpm weapons. Factually based, I would say no, cause of all the other variables. e.g. suppression, aim assist, head glitching, not to mention the skill of the player using the guns. I can't really answer until you say what type of answers you're looking for. And I'd also like to test this in actual combat.

In summary, gun B is better statistically but I would probably prefer gun A.

Btw, what's this for? You seem to be reluctant to tell us.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


This post by "Labby" (Thursday, July 10th 2014, 5:45am) has been deleted by user "Blue Panda" (Friday, July 11th 2014, 4:04am)