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11

Monday, January 20th 2014, 1:33pm

Yes.

But the 'best' is very situational. Math defines the best per situation and only the player can choose which situations he most often puts himself into.


So it comes down to external factors besides the weapon stats? I mean can you give a 'bad' player a statistically good weapon and make him a 'good' player?

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12

Monday, January 20th 2014, 1:34pm

Sometimes, when you are on the opposite side to Symthicians, you have to use the SAR-21 with Muzzle and Stubby just to troll.
theaha for president!!!

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13

Monday, January 20th 2014, 1:55pm

Yes.

But the 'best' is very situational. Math defines the best per situation and only the player can choose which situations he most often puts himself into.


So it comes down to external factors besides the weapon stats? I mean can you give a 'bad' player a statistically good weapon and make him a 'good' player?

I can see the weapon choice mattering mostly in fights between very good players that know how to push every limit. If you have a look at the brute-force thread, it's clear that the weapon balance in BF4 is actually really good - it's now mostly a matter of being informed enough to choose proper guns for their purposes, and then playing to their strengths. A vast majority of kills could have been achieved with almost any gun - nothing will save bad players from getting pwnd by those with a better situational and tactical awareness, positioning, reaction time, aim, etc.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
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Witchalok

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14

Monday, January 20th 2014, 2:33pm

Stats are useful because they allow you to make informed decisions.

For example, people often say "weapon X feels more accurate to me". So I take a look at the stats, and more often than not it's just a placebo. If they had bothered to do the same, they would have been able to tell that by themselves.

None of the players that I squad up with have ever bothered to understand the in-game mechanics. For some it doesn't matter because they can gauge the weapon's performance in-game, but others just whine and whine and whine.
And then they say things like: "the SAR 21 is a beast, I am wrecking with it". Well, you are wrecking with it during this round, but if you had bothered to master the M416 or the ACE you would have fared way better 90% of the time.

On the other hand, what appears to be the best on paper does not always make a good transition in-game.
I have played during the past days with the SCAR-H with angled grip and muzzle break. Most people here would consider it a noob set-up. Heck, I consider it a noob set-up. But the crazy thing is that it works. I am having more fun, and I feel way more confident, that I ever had using the ACE or M416.

We have a saying which roughly translates to "theory is fine, it's actual practice which kills you".
So I would say that stats should not be the ultimate choice for using or not using a weapon.
Once in a while, forget about all of the theorycrafting, and try a set-up in a match. It might actually surprise you. Maybe that extra 10% extra muzzle velocity (or whatever) which did not sound so great on paper makes or breaks the weapon for you.

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15

Monday, January 20th 2014, 3:43pm

As already said by a few other people, stats basically tell you what a weapon is capable of. This however doesn't definitively make certain weapons the best because of their stats. Since we are humans, not robots, we don't have perfect aim, therefore guns that are easier to use (ak 5c for example), will be superior half of the time simply because of how easily someone can be awesome with that gun. It always comes down to human performance, because we shoot the guns, the guns dont shoot themselves.

Maveco

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16

Monday, January 20th 2014, 4:04pm

Choose your role in the field, use stats to find a weapon that excells at that scenario.

...so, yeah...

ps.: ._.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Maveco" (Jan 20th 2014, 4:12pm)


Darktan13

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17

Monday, January 20th 2014, 4:23pm

Sometimes, when you are on the opposite side to Symthicians, you have to use the SAR-21 with Muzzle and Stubby just to troll.

This.

Also Sheep and 3VN gave the correct answers. Yes, stats are the reason for optimal weapon choice.

The stats inform you of which weapon and attachments are optimal both for the situations you place yourself in, and your level of recoil control. There is nothing else.

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"

EMPOWER EMPOWER EMPOWER

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18

Monday, January 20th 2014, 4:27pm

The thing about BF4 and most modern shooters is that the basic lethality of most weapons is high enough that good tactics can make up for a deficient weapon in most situations (bit different when you go head-to-head, but that's going to get you killed anyway, I find. Opinions and playstyles might differ on this). It's not at at all as bad as recent COD games, in which killing is so easy skill hardly comes into play (a conscious design choice), but it's part of the reason why game balance for hardcore is so out of whack, and why I really liked BC2's approach.

So a good player can do well with a suboptimal weapon (for that situation). But as Witchalok said, that player probably would have done even better with a different weapon (i.e. the optimal choice for that situation and the player's skill level). And that's why we look at the stats.
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Watcher-45

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19

Monday, January 20th 2014, 5:03pm

Short answer is yes. While a good gun doesn't make a good player, a bad gun can make a good player bad.


My process for picking guns is rather lengthy for me, but I like to over think and overanalyze everything so here is what I do.

Play with each gun until I get to 100 kills. Remember ones I did well with and/or liked.
Play with each gun again until I unlock all attachments paying close attention to which ones feel best in my hands. Remember which ones I think are best.
Compare the stats of the best weapons and pick the best on paper for the given perceived situation (up close, far away, mixed range...).
Play with attachments and find what works best for me.
All bike, all the time!

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MrT3a

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20

Monday, January 20th 2014, 7:10pm

Sheep and 3VN gave the correct answers. Yes, stats are the reason for optimal weapon choice.

The stats inform you of which weapon and attachments are optimal both for the situations you place yourself in, and your level of recoil control.
Stats thingy

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I'm a battlefield player, good sir. I don't play metro.

PC is no longer PC master race. It's PC mustard race, because consoles need to ketchup :'D

DICE gave so much into making commander better, but lemmings be lemmings I guess.

As a good guy that don't want to use overly glitched weapons, I'll quit using the MTAR and switch to the ACWR until it's fixed

The world needs more people like you


+1, I think we're all in agreement that more MrT3as would be an awesome thing :love:
Although if that was the case they'd use up so much of the world's awesome that there'd be none left for the rest of us! :D

yes, I know, I'm a big-ass hypocrite