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Nick 30075



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Saturday, December 21st 2013, 6:50am

Since I don't know how they are in BF4, in BF3 countermeasures only worked about 80% of the time, the lock range was about triple the spot distance for pilots, and they were OHKs against choppers trying to get cover (since it'd take you in the tail while you were low). Yeah. That tacked onto the fact that the missile aims for you.

Someday, in someone at DICE's brain, it was decided that though aimbots for guns were ban-worthy, they should try making aimbots for RPGs. We still feel the impact today.

But that's entirely BF3 stuff.
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... fuck. Damn you hindsight!


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Saturday, December 21st 2013, 7:44am

Since I don't know how they are in BF4, in BF3 countermeasures only worked about 80% of the time, the lock range was about triple the spot distance for pilots, and they were OHKs against choppers trying to get cover (since it'd take you in the tail while you were low). Yeah. That tacked onto the fact that the missile aims for you.

Someday, in someone at DICE's brain, it was decided that though aimbots for guns were ban-worthy, they should try making aimbots for RPGs. We still feel the impact today.

But that's entirely BF3 stuff.

Well, it seems the only strategy you should apply when 1 guy takes a Stinger in a game is to throw away all the choppers in a black hole. Because you know, he outsmarted you.

Oh yeah and let's not forget that TV missiles, missiles that actually require some aiming, are not OHK anymore on choppers AND they throw other choppers off balance when you hit them with it (with mobility hit = no chance of surviving). So, when you hit a chopper you will not get rewarded with a kill/vehicle destroyed or even have the chance to follow-up with another tv-missile or canon hit, because the other guy will miserably crash/bail, giving you no points at all. Or the hit will not register at all. So basically you struggle making points on enemy vehicles (because TV missiles are even more worthless on armor) and you can't get too close to the real action to kill some infantry because of AA/manpads/50cal.

I have no problem with the concept of lock missiles, but they have some issues. The first problem is Stigla's were buffed in late BF3 because chopper pilots raped the shit out of infantry on console, because it was less likely that two guys would take Stigla's in a 12 person team. In a 32 person team, however... and they're still kinda too good now, a single guy can take out a chopper, shouldn't be possible, at least not on PC/Next-gen. Because that means 2 stigla's and the chopper is cooked, every single time. And I'm not even counting AA and their Active Radar missiles (the ones that will lock by themselves). Javelin do require at least 2 players to be effective and will expose you to enemy fire, so they are fine.
The second problem is that in many cases locked-on missiles are actually more rewarding than aim-it-yourself missiles/rockets, often because they are bugged. Like the TV-missile or the rockets on the attack jet (no crosshair). Or the SRAW guiding being messed up when someone/something passes in your line of sight, or when you're hit.


Punctual Joker


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Saturday, December 21st 2013, 8:22am

i stick with mbt law because of its reload speed smaw and rpg do 30 damage max usualy and take too long to reload by the time u reload to ur second rocket ur dead or they have repaired themselves
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Saturday, December 21st 2013, 11:45am

I've always considered Stingers as area of denial weapons.

If a chopper is harassing team-mates around a flag or objective or whatever, I'll jump in with a Stinger to help out. It's pretty rare to take the chopper down, but its often enough to get the chopper to bugger off and let your guys get on with playing the objective. You'll only take the chopper down if it has a poor pilot.
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Saturday, December 21st 2013, 12:39pm

Because the level of coordination and attentiveness to surroundings required to evade them without countermeasures, which you can often assume you don't have any of because DAT CM RELOAD TIME and the fact that someone on your team is also likely running a locking weapon of some sort, is far greater than the level of... Well, anything required to use the lock-on weapons. Let us take Stingers for example.

You can start lock on, fire a stinger, and reload another shot practically in stride, without having to predict where the craft will be, how far he really is away from you, or really anything. If he's too far away, you can't lock, oh well, keep running. Where's he going to be? Doesn't matter, you have no need to know. Just hover your aim around him until your here beeeeeeeeeeeep and then click. If he has CMs, you miss. Oh well. Get ready to fire another one in .2 seconds. If he doesn't, which is probably the case, lolmobilityhit, congratulations. If it's an attack helicopter, you just fucked over what is likely to be two other players that are in possession of a vehicle asset by yourself. With something you spawn with 5 of. Cue battlefield theme music. To be fair, however, if it's a transport or scout with rep guys in the side, you've done little more than make the vehicle an easier target for your teammates. While this doesn't net you giant e-peen, it is, however, still very useful.

Apologies if this post is full of fuck. It's nearing 6 am.
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<daddygreeenjeans> body checks are a fundamental part of women's suffrage

<Riesig> "... I'M GAY..."

steamboat28: the doctors at the ER found my nipples, too!
steamboat28: it just..y'know...took them a razor and two orderlies.

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<Rezal> peipin, why did you tell them you brought your phone?
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Somehow my bullets are magnetically attracted to popular Youtubers, but theirs rarely seem to hit me.

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Saturday, December 21st 2013, 1:10pm

Lock-on weapons pose little threat to ground vehicles. The javelin is slow to use, it deals pretty weak damage unless assisted by a recon and if you can hit with a javelin you can often do the same with a SRAW/RPG. The MBT-LAW - if it can be counted as a lock-on weapon - deals so little damage that you need to hit with all 5 rockets to kill a tank on your own. By that time, the tank has probably seen your hiding spot and either retreated or pounded your ass to dust.

Now air vehicles are a different story. Helicopters are pretty easy targets for the Stinger/IGLA, but that has a lot to do with how they severely increased the flare cooldown and removed below radar flying. If the cooldown was shortened by about 7-10 seconds and below radar reintroduced, I think there'd be a better balance. Also, it doesn't help matters that the attack helicopter is pretty anemic currently, and only the best pilots can use it effectively.
Lets not forget how quickly the stingers reload.

and let's purposefully, completely, forget that the time it takes to get out of the stinger's range (= stinger lockon range/speed of vehicle) is about 30% of the stinger's reload.

And how even if you choose to not avoid them, you can easily take one hit

And how you can repair that hit

And how you can completely ignore that hit with countermeasure

Yeh. Let's just ignore all of that

Someone sounds bitter.

Well, if we're going that way. I guess we can also ignore that real servers have more than one person firing stingers at you.

I hardly play with air vehicles, so none of this means very much to me. I just find it silly that people think they are right because "muh opinion"


I pity the wool


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Saturday, December 21st 2013, 1:28pm

I hardly play with air vehicles, so none of this means very much to me. I just find it silly that people think they are right because "muh opinion"

It's not opinion, it's fact.
Lock-on weapons are Area Of Denial tools. If you get killed by them, you either pulled off a really bad move or you got outplayed/outsmarted
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Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow

Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.

The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(

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You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...

Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"

I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

*pinches cheeks*
So cute!

But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about

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Saturday, December 21st 2013, 2:33pm

I think the biggest reason why ppl hate Stigla's (and javs to an extent) is more about the spam of the missiles and the ability to be completely denied access to the map. Stiglas are pretty well balanced for 1v1, 2v1 scenarios where if a pilot is stupid you can kill him but if he is smart you ward him away from the immediate area.

They get OP when you have 4-5 (on console) or even more guys (on PC) all spread out across the map constantly locking onto you keeping you from being able to do anything, and then you stack ontop of that the MAA and for helicopters the threat of jets and non-lockon explosives will just make it so that you literally can't do anything except rocket snipe and TV missile from miles away which is no fun for anyone.

Then there is also that mentality of "I am in a flying death machine, why the fuck can 1 single soldier take me out or keep me away from doing what I am supposed to do"

IMO Stigla's should be removed and every air map should have one MAA (minus the blatantly OP Active Radar missiles) which is capable of defending team mates from enemy air but only in a small area and not the entire map (except maps like Zavod or Lancang which all together are crappy maps) And then also we should see a return of the stationary AA missiles that were in previous BF titles, have a couple placed here and there on some of the more important bases to give those areas some added defense.

These measures would make it so that ground units are capable of warding off air attacks but they don't make air completely ineffective across the entire map

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Saturday, December 21st 2013, 3:50pm

If you can't get away by the time the 4th Stinger is en route, you've failed. Yes, 4. First gets CMd, second and third still don't kill you, and by the fourth you should be long gone. Hell, by the second you should be gone. Or have just killed the Engineer. There is that new fancy lock-on indicator which tells you which way they are, after all.

And if the enemy team can afford to run 6 Stigla engineers, your entire team has already failed. Deal with it.

I had the distinct pleasure of being in a chopper with a good pilot once. It was a thing of beauty. I asked him for some tips later on:

- He picked his battles, staying away from open flags with no cover.
- When he approached a target, he usually did so by swinging a wide berth and coming from behind ('front' here being where most of the pilot's own team was).
- Know what you want out of any run, don't just fly to a flag and see what's what circling a bit and doing whatever. Look at it from afar, spot what you can, focus on one area where you think they are, bomb it, get out immediately, kill or no kill. You can always come back, and they can only run so fast.
- The second the beeping starts, fly behind cover opposite the direction the indicator says. Free CM all day erry day by way of rockets meeting rocks/buildings.
- Multiple beepings? You've farmed that area too long, they've gotten pissed, gtfo and try your luck somewhere else. A tank'll fuck em up eventually and most will have to switch back to RPGs.

Probably more, I should've screencapped, but the gist seemed to be supreme map awareness and not being a cocky asshole. Oh, and if there's a SRAW wizard down there, just give up.

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Saturday, December 21st 2013, 4:17pm

Because "people" suck at understanding the game due to retard. According to "people", DMRs, MBT LAW, active radar, all lock-on weapons and all shotguns are for noobs, while, in fact, that stuff is pretty weak, except for certain situations.
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Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"