Symthic Forum was shut down on January 11th, 2019. You're viewing an archive of this page from 2019-01-09 at 01:42. Thank you all for your support! Please get in touch via the Curse help desk if you need any support using this archive.

Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Sheepnub

I pity the wool

(2,326)

Posts: 3,234

Date of registration
: Sep 20th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Atlantis

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

21

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 4:05pm

Isnt that the way it is right now apart from front shots mostly being 5 shots to kill?

Negative. Currently it is:
frontshots: 4-5 shots
side: 3-5 shots
rear: 2-5 shots

Most of the time, you need 5.
but if you do this, you HAVE nerf what's even more broken - those f-ing "Medic Bags". that mechanic is even worse and I was so angry that it returned in BF4 (I would have been fine if medic pack was all we had)

Negative. you can simply outrep damage. But standing on a medic bag doesn't make you invulnerable.

If I'm stingering a heli, he can just press LMB....and he will be at 100% again before i can fire another round
If I'm fighting a medic, and he is standing on a medic kit....he'll still die. He just needs one more bullet to go down, but he doesn't gain health quicker than I can take it away.
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


  • "Thehaxusator" started this thread

Posts: 252

Date of registration
: Sep 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Austria

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

22

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 4:11pm

Isnt that the way it is right now apart from front shots mostly being 5 shots to kill?

Negative. Currently it is:
frontshots: 4-5 shots
side: 3-5 shots
rear: 2-5 shots

Most of the time, you need 5.
but if you do this, you HAVE nerf what's even more broken - those f-ing "Medic Bags". that mechanic is even worse and I was so angry that it returned in BF4 (I would have been fine if medic pack was all we had)

Negative. you can simply outrep damage. But standing on a medic bag doesn't make you invulnerable.

If I'm stingering a heli, he can just press LMB....and he will be at 100% again before i can fire another round
If I'm fighting a medic, and he is standing on a medic kit....he'll still die. He just needs one more bullet to go down, but he doesn't gain health quicker than I can take it away.


Well thats true. Starting from what angles do you get the min damage?. 30 min damage to the rear and 25 min damage to the sides would be good.

Sheepnub

I pity the wool

(2,326)

Posts: 3,234

Date of registration
: Sep 20th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Atlantis

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

23

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 4:13pm

Well thats true. Starting from what angles do you get the min damage?. 30 min damage to the rear and 25 min damage to the sides would be good.

basically, if you aren't shooting at a perfect 80-90 degree angle you get min-like dmg.

Min dmg should be 33 for side, 50 for rear. Or at least 30 and 45 respectively.

But that's just my opinion. Others are, very surely, going to disagree.
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


  • "Thehaxusator" started this thread

Posts: 252

Date of registration
: Sep 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Austria

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

24

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 4:18pm

Completely re-balance vehicle AA-missiles + fix the reload bug:
Heatseekers: Increased range (650?). They should be the jack of all trades missiles, with longer range than the Active Radar missiles but shorter than the Passive Radar missiles. Easy to use.
Passive radar: Even more increased range (750?). Longer range than both other types of AA missiles, requires the user to hold the lock. If they become too good due to the range the missiles could loose the ability to require locks, but they would accelerate a tad faster to somewhat make up for it.
Active Radar: Decrease range dramatically (300-ish), instant lock, no dumb-fire, beeps instantly. The shotgun of the AA-missiles: can only be used at short range but has no lock time, just switch to them, fire and switch back to cannon. They are no longer the all powerful sniper missiles that they used to be, instead they can only be used when you have a enemy jet within range and within your "lock-cone".

PLease no buff for any lock ons. I would just drascially reduce range on active radar, make it give lockon sound right from the beginning and most importantly take it its ability to affect your manouverability, since getting hit by any missile atm screws up your dogfights. And a missile that can actually be used in dogfights due to instant fire, should not atuomatically win the dogfight for you. A loss of manouverability agaisnt a good pilot usually means death.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Thehaxusator" (Dec 8th 2013, 4:25pm)


Misnomer

Don't Prox Me Bro

(497)

Posts: 582

Date of registration
: Sep 4th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 10

  • Send private message

25

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 5:09pm

I could write a whole thing on just the rocket launchers (and I might), but I think it bears mentioning again how crap the disable system is in BF4.

In BF3, the disable system was complained about by everyone. Infantry hated it because it basically meant that you never got kills because the tanks could simple pop out and repair once they got that beeping warning. Tankers hated it because it meant they had lower effective health because of the bleed off if they did not repair. But compared to disable in BF4, it seems like a brilliant system.

BF4 did away with disable effectively by making it nearly impossible to disable without a rear hit. At the same time, BF4 retained the damage model from BF3 for rockets. The end result is that it takes you just as many shots to get the kill, but you don't get that middle ground of disabling to feel like you have made an impact.

Compare the tanks and ifv v. infantry combat in BF4 compared to say Little Birds (which are arguably OP). Because of the gyro mechanic, getting that disable is huge and can cause a stupid pilot crash into the ground. There is no such punishment for stupid IFV or Tank drivers unless they happen to drive into an ambush and get shot from behind. Tire hits and tread hits do nothing reliably.

All of this contributes to the problems with the launchers.



If Javelins disabled in 2 hits, they might be useful. Instead, tanks now get a directional warning and it takes 3 javelins to kill unless you have a soflam. Plus you are required to hold the lock, making rolling forward and backward a great defense against javeilns. If you could disable, that defense would be gone.


Same goes for the SRAW. Currently it is too damn slow to be good for anything but anti-helicopter. Long range shots against tanks might be useful; but, with repair speed and the smoke trail, you are more likely to die to the tank than it is to be injured by you. SRAW should be a disabling device because the ability to readjust aim with it. Currently it is just dumb because the most reliable usage requires combining hip fire with guided fire.

SMAW and RPG just aren't different enough. Because the whole concept of infantry v. ground vehicles is still based number of rockets fired, the SMAW wins with its faster reload, shorter lasting smoke trail, and speed to target.

LAW is a weird launcher that is clearly meant to help people who can't aim. Sadly, all it does is make spamming viable because of the "number of rockets" balancing. Fastest reload makes it useful, but absurd from a design standpoint. Its real strength should be that it is easy to use and should be the go to for people wanting a dumb fire rocket that can also take on marked targets.

The AA rockets are actually quite well designed. The problem with them is that the AA tank is simple overpowered, so there is no reason to take them on maps with those things.



SOLUTIONS:-

- Make disable happen more frequently Every rocket should do some minimum of disable points. A tank with 7 health left should not be able to drive full speed. Tread shots and tire shots contributing to disable would be appreciated.

- Revisit all vehicle armor. RHIB boats, Jeeps, MRAPs should not be taking 3 javelins to kill... ever. One rocket of basically every type except maybe RPG/SMAW should be disabling these. One hit from jav should kill all but MRAP in the light vehicles.

-Increase splash damage on RPG. This will give it a role as the less accurate but more likely to hit rocket as well as an anti-infantry capability (with high arc and slow reload, this is the launcher you want to give the anti-infantry role to.)

- Make the JAV 40 damage direct fire with disable after two hits.

- Make SRAW 34 damage always and remove lock on ability.

- Reduce the default ammo count for LAW and Javelins to 2 or 3. Less aiming skill, less ammo. With more frequent disables this would mean that often you could disable on your own with an easy launcher, but not finish the thing)

- Reduce ammo count of AA manpads to 2 for IGLA and 3 for stinger. The reason the stinger gets one more is because it is balanced around shooting after counter measures while the IGLA is around reacquisition of the target.

- Nerf repair tool speed. Make the EOD bot actually have a place in the game other than trolling.


Of course I may be off here. If everyone starts running active protection then the high ammo count may be necessary. The dumb infantry perk system (yeah I said it, I think it is moronic because it is so random and unreliable) means you have no idea what amount of ammo you will have most encounters and if the tank gets to shrug off one or two rockets with no damage then me nerfing ammo count makes no sense.

I still think it is moronic to balance around infantry carrying 5 rockets each rather than powerful rockets versus incredibly lethal and mobile tanks. Defense systems that outright cancel a rocket and leave no lasting impact on the tank (reactive from BF3, active in bf4) just make this stupid rocket spam design more annoying. We have so many different guidance systems and rockets, it is a shame how random and grindy these encounters end up feeling.

This post has been edited 16 times, last edit by "Misnomer" (Dec 8th 2013, 5:47pm)


Posts: 77

Date of registration
: Nov 17th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 4

  • Send private message

26

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 10:53pm


Also/or make the stealth jets actually stealth, taking them off the air radar unless afterburners are used, and make the spotted times very short. That would go some way to balance them.


That would ruin the air battle as most people would ignore their role in the stealth jest to go after other targets. However I also don't like the tyranny of an all knowing air radar.
(and yes I know about ECM and its ability to temporarily mask position on radar, at the expense of losing countermeasures)

I would propose the 3 jet perks each do a distinct advantage.
Gyro Stabilizer gets changed to how reactive works on tanks meaning it's not a reduction in dmg, but a raising of the critical threshold, so being hit with one missile won't kill dogfights.
Stealth makes you passively invisible on air radar, but if you use afterburner to "sprint", shoot, or are spotted you appear on air radar as well as it's standard benefits.
Jet Proximity scan becomes Ground Radar, showing tanks and other vehicles on the ground as well as air vehicles.

This should mix things up, as now pilots need to ask Am I going to be targeted a lot/ receive hits that will ruin me in dogfights? Gyro Stabilizer.
Am I planning on making ambush runs on unsuspecting players, ready to bug out when the heat becomes too intense? Stealth
Do I plan on making numerous ground runs to deny enemy armor? "Ground Radar."

Ground Radar might be OP in Attack Jets because of Omni presence, but given the long CM times, and hopefully a buff to the AA prowess of Stealth Jets, it might be better to choose Gyro to take the hits, or Stealth to try and hide.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. If jets are going after ground targets they're far more likely to be actively spotted. It's just to give the stealth jets a much needed advantage in dogfighting, the vapour trails introduced in BF4 already make it difficult to lose attackers. If the stealth upgrade did that, I'd be up for it, but I don't think that attack jets should have access to it.

Another solution could be to make air radar an unlock for attack jets, so that it must be equipped in place of something else, hopefully focussing them on ground somewhat more.

C0llis

Up and down. Bounce all around

(3,334)

Posts: 3,100

Date of registration
: Apr 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

27

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 11:42pm

- Make rear/back shots to mbt's do an increased minimum dmg. hitting 20 dmg to the back of a tank is bullshit when you go through all the efforts of flanking, fire a round, and then the tank just turns around a few centimeter.
Yes. Being able to hit a tank in the back in the first place means that either the tank did bad and overextended, or that you did good and got behind him. That should always be rewarded (that is, you, the engineer, should be rewarded).
- Increase in launcher-dmg vs tank: Front-shots are solid 4 shot kills, side-shots 3-4 shot kills (3 if you get the angle right), rear-shots a solid 2-shot. Offcourse the LAW should be an exception to this. The rpg and SMAW should follow the same amount of shots to kill pattern, but the RPG should be a disabling-machine.
I think another way to balance rocket launchers is to increase the default (and buffed) carry capacity. Rocket spam from 2+ engineers is already deadly, and buffing rocket damage would make it straight up overpowered.
- Make support/recon throw their c4 further: I've seen more than enough of them sneak up on a vehicle succesfully, but then the vehicle moves a few inches, completely messing up the c4. That ain't right. A 5'ish meter lob should be enough, but some trying out would be better for this.
Yes, the weak throwing arm of supports/recons is embarrassing.
- If you gain a lock on an enemy vehicle with a lockon-weapon, and then the enemy moves away a couple of hundred meter, you should not lose the lock. He came into your territory, and you succesfully gained the lock: You should get rewarded for for succesfully surviving the strafing run and holding lock, rather than the vehicle getting rewarded for holding W.
Infinite lock-on range after having aquired a lock is bound to bring problems, but something like ~100 meters longer range when you have acquired a lock is reasonable.

- Increase the SRAW's reload-time to about 4 or 4.5 seconds. Currently it's the highest DPS launcher. reloads faster than the LAW, and doesn't have that lulzy 21dmg max.
- Fix it so that the SRAW doesn't lock on to coordinates, but can only fly away from the user (like it did in bfbc2)
I'm not sure I agree here, the SRAW has some pretty big drawbacks up close, and a low projectile speed that I think balances it out quite nicely. Up close you have the choice of terrible hipfire or ADS fire that is suicide if the enemy have somewhat of an idea of where you are (even a quick ads -> shoot -> aim -> zoom out is often enough time to get killed). IMO the current SRAW system vs. the BC2 AT4 is +-0, both have their advantages and drawbacks.

- Increase attack heli gunner base spread from 0.0 to 0.3 -> 100% accurate? How about no
Yes, if it also is made into less of a peashooter (or given one extra mag).
- No repairing during combat: The moment you start regenerating health is the moment you can start repairing.
Repairing in combat is not bad in itself, it is teamplay and the repairer is often exposed. The repair rate in combat could however be decreased: LMB should not beat superior placement.

- Reduce countermeasure reload from 30 seconds to 15 (with some minor differences between countermeasures, offcourse).
Yes. All of my yes.

Completely re-balance vehicle AA-missiles + fix the reload bug:
Heatseekers: Increased range (650?). They should be the jack of all trades missiles, with longer range than the Active Radar missiles but shorter than the Passive Radar missiles. Easy to use.
Passive radar: Even more increased range (750?). Longer range than both other types of AA missiles, requires the user to hold the lock. If they become too good due to the range the missiles could loose the ability to require locks, but they would accelerate a tad faster to somewhat make up for it.
Active Radar: Decrease range dramatically (300-ish), instant lock, no dumb-fire, beeps instantly. The shotgun of the AA-missiles: can only be used at short range but has no lock time, just switch to them, fire and switch back to cannon. They are no longer the all powerful sniper missiles that they used to be, instead they can only be used when you have a enemy jet within range and within your "lock-cone".

PLease no buff for any lock ons.
This could be a way to fix the current lock on system, if CM cooldowns were simultaneously decreased. Cutting the CM cooldowns in half is a major nerf to anti-air missiles, and re-balancing the current anti-air missiles is definitely needed as there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose anything but the AR missiles. A range buff is needed for the jet and AA missiles to make them worthwhile, since the current missiles are only usable within cannon range (current AR missiles excluded). The spread (or long range damage) of the MAA cannon should also be decreased, but it is a hard thing to balance since it is a lot more effective against slower targets (like helis) than faster targets (like jets). The current cannon is in a pretty good place now against jets, but it is too effective at extreme long range against helicopters; it should be nerfed against the latter, but not the former.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

  • "Thehaxusator" started this thread

Posts: 252

Date of registration
: Sep 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Austria

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

28

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 11:47pm

Completely re-balance vehicle AA-missiles + fix the reload bug:
Heatseekers: Increased range (650?). They should be the jack of all trades missiles, with longer range than the Active Radar missiles but shorter than the Passive Radar missiles. Easy to use.
Passive radar: Even more increased range (750?). Longer range than both other types of AA missiles, requires the user to hold the lock. If they become too good due to the range the missiles could loose the ability to require locks, but they would accelerate a tad faster to somewhat make up for it.
Active Radar: Decrease range dramatically (300-ish), instant lock, no dumb-fire, beeps instantly. The shotgun of the AA-missiles: can only be used at short range but has no lock time, just switch to them, fire and switch back to cannon. They are no longer the all powerful sniper missiles that they used to be, instead they can only be used when you have a enemy jet within range and within your "lock-cone".

PLease no buff for any lock ons.
This could be a way to fix the current lock on system, if CM cooldowns were simultaneously decreased. Cutting the CM cooldowns in half is a major nerf to anti-air missiles, and re-balancing the current anti-air missiles is definitely needed as there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose anything but the AR missiles. A range buff is needed for the jet and AA missiles to make them worthwhile, since the current missiles are only usable within cannon range (current AR missiles excluded). The spread (or long range damage) of the MAA cannon should also be decreased, but it is a hard thing to balance since it is a lot more effective against slower targets (like helis) than faster targets (like jets). The current cannon is in a pretty good place now against jets, but it is too effective at extreme long range against helicopters; it should be nerfed against the latter, but not the former.[/quote]
About helis being erasier to hit i dont really agree, since jets movement is very predictable as they mostly fly straight. Helicopters on the other hand are far less predictable and also smaller. In addition jets if they want to attack the aa, they become extremly vulnerable, and this will mostly lead to instant death against good maa drivers (already in bf3) as you have to fly staight at the maa. Helicopters however can take cover, then qickly pop up and shoot tvs and rockets, which makes them pretty effective at taking out the maa granted they camp at the other end of the map.
So generally i cunclude that for a good heli team that plays campy the maa is not the big of a deal, especially with tvs not being countered by the reactive armor anymore. Attack jets however are pretty screwed. Not even ging to start with the stealth jets lol. Imo they need a secondary that enables them to fight the maa.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Thehaxusator" (Dec 8th 2013, 11:53pm)


Posts: 341

Date of registration
: Jun 29th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

29

Monday, December 9th 2013, 2:38am

Isnt that the way it is right now apart from front shots mostly being 5 shots to kill?

Negative. Currently it is:
frontshots: 4-5 shots
side: 3-5 shots
rear: 2-5 shots

Most of the time, you need 5.
but if you do this, you HAVE nerf what's even more broken - those f-ing "Medic Bags". that mechanic is even worse and I was so angry that it returned in BF4 (I would have been fine if medic pack was all we had)

Negative. you can simply outrep damage. But standing on a medic bag doesn't make you invulnerable.

If I'm stingering a heli, he can just press LMB....and he will be at 100% again before i can fire another round
If I'm fighting a medic, and he is standing on a medic kit....he'll still die. He just needs one more bullet to go down, but he doesn't gain health quicker than I can take it away.
well I wasn't thinking about heli-repairs - which is on a whole different level of broken and I'd 100% agree with you

for tanks/land vehicles, RPG's usually outdamage repairs in the same way that "most" firefights outdamage a medic bag

but heli repairs - yes, that is just broken on a whole different level. imo, just reducing repair effectiveness would be enough - in the same sense that a pilot might have to lay low for ammo replenishment, he might also have to lay low for repairs. again - I'm all about things requiring attention and time

C0llis

Up and down. Bounce all around

(3,334)

Posts: 3,100

Date of registration
: Apr 15th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 15

  • Send private message

30

Monday, December 9th 2013, 6:16am

Completely re-balance vehicle AA-missiles + fix the reload bug:
Heatseekers: Increased range (650?). They should be the jack of all trades missiles, with longer range than the Active Radar missiles but shorter than the Passive Radar missiles. Easy to use.
Passive radar: Even more increased range (750?). Longer range than both other types of AA missiles, requires the user to hold the lock. If they become too good due to the range the missiles could loose the ability to require locks, but they would accelerate a tad faster to somewhat make up for it.
Active Radar: Decrease range dramatically (300-ish), instant lock, no dumb-fire, beeps instantly. The shotgun of the AA-missiles: can only be used at short range but has no lock time, just switch to them, fire and switch back to cannon. They are no longer the all powerful sniper missiles that they used to be, instead they can only be used when you have a enemy jet within range and within your "lock-cone".

PLease no buff for any lock ons.
This could be a way to fix the current lock on system, if CM cooldowns were simultaneously decreased. Cutting the CM cooldowns in half is a major nerf to anti-air missiles, and re-balancing the current anti-air missiles is definitely needed as there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose anything but the AR missiles. A range buff is needed for the jet and AA missiles to make them worthwhile, since the current missiles are only usable within cannon range (current AR missiles excluded). The spread (or long range damage) of the MAA cannon should also be decreased, but it is a hard thing to balance since it is a lot more effective against slower targets (like helis) than faster targets (like jets). The current cannon is in a pretty good place now against jets, but it is too effective at extreme long range against helicopters; it should be nerfed against the latter, but not the former.

About helis being erasier to hit i dont really agree, since jets movement is very predictable as they mostly fly straight. Helicopters on the other hand are far less predictable and also smaller. In addition jets if they want to attack the aa, they become extremly vulnerable, and this will mostly lead to instant death against good maa drivers (already in bf3) as you have to fly staight at the maa. Helicopters however can take cover, then qickly pop up and shoot tvs and rockets, which makes them pretty effective at taking out the maa granted they camp at the other end of the map.
So generally i cunclude that for a good heli team that plays campy the maa is not the big of a deal, especially with tvs not being countered by the reactive armor anymore. Attack jets however are pretty screwed. Not even ging to start with the stealth jets lol. Imo they need a secondary that enables them to fight the maa.

And I don't agree there at all. Helis cannot come anywhere near the speed of jets, and the jets also have a larger area easily available to them. Jets can go higher up, further away (and most importantly) faster than helis. I do not know what kind of jets you have seen but the ones I have seen most definitely do not fly straight: they are constantly maneuvering and turning in order to dogfight, line up a strafing run, or (most common) not fly out-of-bounds. Jets move considerably faster than helis and are often further away and higher up, so the amount of leading that has to be done with the cannons are higher for jets than for helis, and when more leading is required the chances of missing, due to unexpected maneuvers, increases.
Lol, no. In BF3 jets didn't really have to fear the AA; good jet pilots could outsnipe the MAA with rocket pods. Luckily that is no longer the case.

On open maps in BF4 helis don't stand a chance against the MAA: it is possible (even easy) to take out the enemy helis across the map with the MAA, both Lancang and Golmud are excellent examples of this, although Lancang is the most extreme example where it is possible to take out the enemy helicopters over their own spawn from your own spawn. Neither jets nor helis have any real chance of taking out an MAA (unless the MAA driver is particularly bad), and there is nothing wrong with that, in fact jets and helis should be scared shitless of the MAA, but not from across the map. There is something very wrong with the balance when the MAA can deny the entire airspace of the map from just outside its own spawn.

Popping over cover to TV is not worth very much if the MAA can hit the heli without LOS behind cover by using AR missiles.

Air assets are not supposed to take out the MAA unless if they have extraordinary coordination with other air assets/the gunner and are able to gang up effectively. Giving Air assets direct counters to the MAA is not something that is needed, and it could possibly lead to the BF3 scenario where only jets and other helis (+ Hunturk) are counters to the heli. They should however be able to avoid the MAA and pick fights where the MAA cannot touch them. Currently that is not the case since the area that the MAA can deny to the enemy air assets is pretty much the entire map, instead of only a smaller bubble around the MAA.

The issue is not that helis and jets cannot kill the MAA, the problem is that the MAA can kill jets and helis indiscriminately at extreme ranges.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.