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: Nov 17th 2013

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11

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 10:26am

Also/or make the stealth jets actually stealth, taking them off the air radar unless afterburners are used, and make the spotted times very short. That would go some way to balance them.

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12

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 10:51am

Yeah, then in addition to not being able to hurt anything they can not be able to be seen by anything either.

Seriously though, dice needs to pull their shit together and realize 80 ton war machines don't just randomly spin out when driving up a 10 degree incline and jetskis and boats don't just magically move straight through waves in rough seas.

And what's with 3 RPGs to kill armored jeeps? That's the same amount of m320s needed to destroy one.

The whole disabled threshold needs tweaking too. I did 91 dmg to an attack jet with another attack jet and he wasn't disabled. Any vehicle that's at less than 20% hp should be disabled until repaired to full. Oh and disabled jets should have their ejection seats disabled. Or at least credit the disabler with the kill when they die out of zone or w/e
"Blood is the price of victory"
- Karl von Clausewitz

"Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning."
- Erwin Rommel

PSN: Suodeth_

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: Apr 2nd 2013

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13

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 11:02am


Also/or make the stealth jets actually stealth, taking them off the air radar unless afterburners are used, and make the spotted times very short. That would go some way to balance them.


That would ruin the air battle as most people would ignore their role in the stealth jest to go after other targets. However I also don't like the tyranny of an all knowing air radar.
(and yes I know about ECM and its ability to temporarily mask position on radar, at the expense of losing countermeasures)

I would propose the 3 jet perks each do a distinct advantage.
Gyro Stabilizer gets changed to how reactive works on tanks meaning it's not a reduction in dmg, but a raising of the critical threshold, so being hit with one missile won't kill dogfights.
Stealth makes you passively invisible on air radar, but if you use afterburner to "sprint", shoot, or are spotted you appear on air radar as well as it's standard benefits.
Jet Proximity scan becomes Ground Radar, showing tanks and other vehicles on the ground as well as air vehicles.

This should mix things up, as now pilots need to ask Am I going to be targeted a lot/ receive hits that will ruin me in dogfights? Gyro Stabilizer.
Am I planning on making ambush runs on unsuspecting players, ready to bug out when the heat becomes too intense? Stealth
Do I plan on making numerous ground runs to deny enemy armor? "Ground Radar."

Ground Radar might be OP in Attack Jets because of Omni presence, but given the long CM times, and hopefully a buff to the AA prowess of Stealth Jets, it might be better to choose Gyro to take the hits, or Stealth to try and hide.

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14

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 11:12am

Oh and disabled jets should have their ejection seats disabled. Or at least credit the disabler with the kill when they die out of zone or w/e


Ejection seats shouldn't be disabled, but deaths 11s after ejection due to hitting the ground or OoB should credit the disabler with the kill. Also mobility hits that cause the vehicle to crash and explode with the occupant(s) still inside should count as kills as well without awarding all the points for doing all the damage and the "Vehicle Disabled" points for bringing the vehicle below the disable threshold. It would at least award the attacker, while also giving the victim(s) some info on what, who, and from where.

  • "Thehaxusator" started this thread

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15

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 1:24pm

I like how this "balancing" only takes the (already omnipotent) vehicles in mind.

It's not like those ants that are running around, shooting smoking rockets around, count for anything. Why would they be allowed to have fun?
Fuck that.

If ur not sitting on the spawnscreen for 60seconds to get into a vehicle, you ain't going to do anything in bf4.

If you wish to make a "balance" topic, then feel free to actually include all players.


I do share your frustration about infantry gameplay on many maps. The thing is vehicles are weaker than ever before in any battlefield game, however there is so many of them on many maps it is ridiculous. While skill in vehicles is not rewarded anymore, the sheer quantity of them makes the experience on many maps fustrating. Golmud as an example there is at least 3 tanks and also a lot of lavs. Two scouts i think, one transport chopper, the attack helo, two jets, one gunship and the allmighty maa on each side most of the time. This is indeed pretty ridiculous. And with the smaller ammo pool for launchers you are left pretty much screwed even as engi. DICE should absolutely reduce the amount of vehicles. I mostly focused on vehicle balancing issues, but this thread should also be there to discuss vehicle-infi interaction and thus please go ahead and also write your thoughts down. It is greatly appreciated.

Sheepnub

I pity the wool

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16

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 1:55pm

but this thread should also be there to discuss vehicle-infi interaction and thus please go ahead and also write your thoughts down. It is greatly appreciated.

Well, this is the most positive result to a rant of mine ever...

My view on the game might differ greatly from others, but these are a small amount of things I would like to see in the game.

Buff to infantry:

- Make rear/back shots to mbt's do an increased minimum dmg. hitting 20 dmg to the back of a tank is bullshit when you go through all the efforts of flanking, fire a round, and then the tank just turns around a few centimeter.
- Increase in launcher-dmg vs tank: Front-shots are solid 4 shot kills, side-shots 3-4 shot kills (3 if you get the angle right), rear-shots a solid 2-shot. Offcourse the LAW should be an exception to this. The rpg and SMAW should follow the same amount of shots to kill pattern, but the RPG should be a disabling-machine.
- Make support/recon throw their c4 further: I've seen more than enough of them sneak up on a vehicle succesfully, but then the vehicle moves a few inches, completely messing up the c4. That ain't right. A 5'ish meter lob should be enough, but some trying out would be better for this.
- If you gain a lock on an enemy vehicle with a lockon-weapon, and then the enemy moves away a couple of hundred meter, you should not lose the lock. He came into your territory, and you succesfully gained the lock: You should get rewarded for for succesfully surviving the strafing run and holding lock, rather than the vehicle getting rewarded for holding W.

Nerf to infantry:
- Fix the slam not rendering. Invisible mines are just bad. A smart slam should take out a tank, a glitched one shouldn't.
- Increase the SRAW's reload-time to about 4 or 4.5 seconds. Currently it's the highest DPS launcher. reloads faster than the LAW, and doesn't have that lulzy 21dmg max.
- Fix it so that the SRAW doesn't lock on to coordinates, but can only fly away from the user (like it did in bfbc2)
^These two suggestions come from someone who's #22 in the world with the SRAW, I'm trying to actually be objective about this

Nerf to vehicles:
- Increase HMG base spread from 0.0 to 0.5 -> 100% accurate? How about no
- Increase attack heli gunner base spread from 0.0 to 0.3 -> 100% accurate? How about no
^Drivers should be rewarded for bursting, but having a 100% accurate gun is just stupid. These values are (or should be, I'm not sure) half of their max spread.
- No repairing during combat: The moment you start regenerating health is the moment you can start repairing.
^No more "LMB to win". Tank 1 vs tank 2: Tank 2 has a guy in the back holding the left mouse button. Who's going to win? (protip: It has nothing to do with who has the better strategy of attack/defense)

Buff to vehicles:
- Reduce countermeasure reload from 30 seconds to 15 (with some minor differences between countermeasures, offcourse).
^In bf3 it was too fast, in bf4 it's ridiculously slow. We need a middle ground.


These are only a few things, but I'll stop for now. These things are way too extreme, however. And probably will never, ever, be implemented. But things along these lines are what I wish to see.
*a man can always dream, right?
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Sheepnub" (Dec 8th 2013, 2:05pm)


Frosty

Staying frosty.

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17

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 2:58pm

Conquest maps in BF4 have too many heavily armored vehicles as well as these vehicles being too powerful. It's painfully obvious that infantry combat simply doesn't unfold because everyone's too afraid to move on the ground, where armour rapes everything. I like my Conquest maps large and vehicle-heavy, but not to the point that infantry just becomes cannon fodder. I don't know what DICE was aiming to achieve in BF4 - on the one hand, it's visible in the map design that they care about infantry combat, but on the other hand, they made it technically extremely difficult (22 damage on rear armor, yay) to be successful against armor as an infantry player unless you mercilessly exploit things like the top-attack SRAW, the invisible SLAMs or the areas on the maps that armor can't reach (in other words: rooftops). Maybe DICE was expecting people to use laser-designation more often, but it's still a fairly impractical game mechanic IMO.

I might get a lot of hate for this, but I have to say that I absolutely loved the "coffin on treads" MBT and APCs in BC2. To be more precise, MBTs in BC2 regularly died to AT rockets in about 3 hits to the front, had no armor regeneration, no boost, pretty terrible acceleration and no standard countermeasures, let alone a secondary weapon by default. This made them challenging to use, or even impossible if the enemy team really decided on hunting them down. But boy, did it feel rewarding to use them if you had a good run. I also think that despite their poor acceleration, their handling itself was great - they had superb traction and they interestingly didn't suffer from the extremely weird "laggy collision" issue that is still present in BF4.

The air game is entirely different though. I'm against reducing countermeasure reload times. Attack jets will be invincible if you do that. Well, except against active radar missiles which, and I'm honest about this, need to have their range nerfed straight into the ground. "Sniping" enemy air assets from accross the map, with no warning and very little you can actually do to defend yourself against, is neither fair nor balanced.

Overall, I think the main problem with AA missiles right now is that they cause helicopters to crash waaaaay too often. It's like the damage they do doesn't even play a role, it's the fact that they topple helicopters and send them into an uncontrollable dive, even if you have the Gyro Stabilizer equipped. IMO AA missiles should do a bit of damage and throw off the pilot's aim a little, so popping flares or ECM would be your way to avoid damage and not near-certain death. I feel that this was the case in the beta, where Stingers did 25(?) damage to attack helos and seemed to cause crashes less often, though that might not necessarily be true. I only know I had a lot more fun flying attack helos in the beta, whereas in retail, it feels like I'm screwed once I get a lock-on warning. Might also have to do with the fact that both the warning and the flares are hugely delayed at times, so maybe it can be attributed to the game's netcode.

  • "Thehaxusator" started this thread

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18

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 3:03pm

Increase in launcher-dmg vs tank: Front-shots are solid 4 shot kills, side-shots 3-4 shot kills (3 if you get the angle right), rear-shots a solid 2-shot. Offcourse the LAW should be an exception to this. The rpg and SMAW should follow the same amount of shots to kill pattern, but the RPG should be a disabling-machine.

Isnt that the way it is right now apart from front shots mostly being 5 shots to kill?

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19

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 3:10pm

- No repairing during combat: The moment you start regenerating health is the moment you can start repairing.
bout to go to bed to too tired to comment on the other stuff

but if you do this, you HAVE nerf what's even more broken - those f-ing "Medic Bags". that mechanic is even worse and I was so angry that it returned in BF4 (I would have been fine if medic pack was all we had)

I'm indifferent about repairing in combat - it's the whole passive heal/repair in combat stuff that I can't stand. Every action should take active participation and attention. When actions take attention, they take time, and break up the endless slog of combat. see BF3 revives: while this was broken in many ways, one of them was that it did very little to slow down combat. for the amount of impact that bringing someone back INTO combat is, it should be....POST-combat; why? because it didn't divert said reviver's time and attention

so if anything, remove both if that makes any sense. but that's such a drastic change I doubt we'll see it post game release sadly

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: Nov 11th 2013

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20

Sunday, December 8th 2013, 3:45pm

I'm not very experienced player in BF4 right now and also I didn't play BF3 at all but one time during the beta. Instead I have good experience from BF2 and it's still matters.
Please, don't be very frustrated about my nebbish opinion and forgive me for my bad english.
Land vehicles: it sometimes a little bit difficult to drive through small obstacles or many holes on the ground, but nothing like circling around in a tank or changing direction by 180/360 degrees or something like that. Instead I've found that all drive-modes, from crawling at low speed to sprinting, are very useful in concrete situations.

MBTs: when damage from different weapons is okay and pretty balanced, I found that combination of Sabot shell/Staff shell is too strong against other armour. May be better to make the Staff shell as a primary weapon option?

IFVs: nothing to say, they seem good balanced to me.

MAA: all missile types need more difference between each other. I know that HS become useless when you have PR-missiles, and the same fate reaches PR after AR-missiles are available. Also about range, speed and behavior (also these suggestions include Stealth jets):
HS - with small lock-on range, but very good maneuverability and decent speed.
AR - medium lock-on range (this means that if missile fired and it's target too far away, it can't achieve smart auto-lock outside of it's effective range and becomes like dumb-fired rocket) with decent maneuverability and speed. Also missile autolock area could be bigger so your target has more time to react and deploy countermeasures.
PR - long ranged lock-on (with possible re lock-on), bad maneuverability and very high speed at final stage of flight.
30mm guns are very accurate at long ranges and drop aircraft too quickly in my opinion. May be reducing bullet speed or increasing bullet drop would help.

Also want to say about how worthless the IR-smoke is, comparing to APS and SS. It can only prevent lock-ons form LGM-weaponry and that's all? Or I'm missing something? Same question goes for Maintenance upgrade.

FACs and RHIBS: nothing to say about these things except one moment - they are ridiculously durable for engie's missile launchers. Most of the time it's a lot better just to kill driver and passengers (RHIB), or don't even engage (FAC).

Stealth jets: they must be equal in terms of maneuverability and speed (say no to Su-50 paper plane and F-35 flying log) but also do it better than Attack jets. Also missile payload could be increased from 2/0 to 2/2 to let them truly fulfill their air-superiority role. I'd like to see them to be more stealthy by default, for example they a little bit more time to lock on them, or they are invisible on air radar from certain radius.

Attack jets: main cannon damage could be weakened against both ground and air targets, so secondary weapons won't be useless. So if you want to engage better helicopters or have at least a little change against Stealth jets - you should take Heatseekers. More punch against armor - AtG weapons. JDAM needs more love in terms of splash damage radius.

Scouts: they are ok as a vehicle, but when it comes loaded with few engies - expect pain in the ass. May be repair rates inside vehicles should be reduced, or even forbidden.

Attacks helis: don't know how exactly Below Radar perk works because I never had experience with it, but from what I've already read, it could greatly increase survivability on wide open maps and allow pilots not only spam long range missiles from the edge of the map.