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Darktan13

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Thursday, October 10th 2013, 9:13pm

The Stationary AA

The SAA in BF4 is automated, it will, and does totally shred anything it shoots at. ( except the CN SAA, which just gives you a menacing look and doesn't fire, hooray for bugs! )
When it does shoot, it is an incredibly effective uncap defence, making it extremely challenging for lone thieves to steal assets. It has a very short range, and being stationary, can be placed with limited LoS except over uncap assets, making it the ideal uncap-defence only mechanism ( unlike BF3s SAA, which could be used to surprising effectiveness vs in-map opponents )

However there are some serious issues with the SAA. this isn't to say it should make it impossible to steal assets, as no doubt players will find an ingenious way to trick or distract the SAA long enough to escape with stolen goods, and thats fine, but the current level of protection ( effectively zero ) is totally inadequate.

Placement - it cannot actually see the helicopter spawns it is there to protect, thieves can hover behind the building, pop up and steal the helis, all without entering LoS of the SAA, this is a HUGE failure, especially as it's automatic, and cannot be used preventatively by players.

Activation - As previously noted, the SAA does in fact shred things it shoots at, however it only shoots when the target is spotted. Thieves lingering around uncaps are among the LEAST likely to be spotted, and the most challenging TO spot ( extremely low traffic area, can hide out of LoS of anyone spawning with ease, ect ) In fact, the only reliable ( or often possible at all ) way to spot these players is with a MAV. This renders the SAA generally incompetent at even thinking about preventing steals, if the placement allowed it to.

General Protection -related concerns - Obliteration game mode, featured a map with no out of bounds uncap. without this OOB, it's also possible to easily ( solo, can do multi-man ground asset steals with OOB enabled ) solo steal any ground asset at will, almost totally uncounterable. Taking a jetski on round start ( or midround ) to the opposing "uncap" and stealing whatever asset you can see is just abusive, the effort it takes to defend against that is unreasonable, and the reward for successfully stealing the MBT or MAA is essentially victory for your team, you don't even have to USE the asset you've stolen, just sit back and play super super safe, sniping with it, letting your own assets push aggressively with little opposition ends in victory every time.

Solutions - Have an extremely short range on the SAA ( 200-300m ), have it placed so it can see ALL the asset spawns ( in SoS, that would mean on top of a building, or on a ship beside the uncap perhaps ), ensure this placement does not leave much range to influence beyond the uncap, and remove the spotted requirement. Given that the SAA is not an insta-kill and requires LoS / can only fire upon one target at a time, steals would still be possible when co-ordinated ( and not disrupted by opposition ) but would be much more challenging, requiring more effort/co-ordination to actually steal an asset.

TL:DR - The SAA is awesome when it works, but current implementation prevents it from being remotely effective. Fix is to remove spotting requirement and move the asset placement or move the SAA placement.

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"

EMPOWER EMPOWER EMPOWER

yugas42

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Thursday, October 10th 2013, 9:19pm

Have to agree with this. I was gunning in an attack heli yesterday and we were freely floating over the US spawn, directly in sight of the SAA, but we were not spotted, and therefore I could do whatever I wanted to. After a few minutes someone who spawned back in the US base finally spotted us and the SAA gun started to hit us, but we only took about 40% damage before we were out of its sight and range.

Sheepnub

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Thursday, October 10th 2013, 9:23pm

tl;dr: automatic stationary aa should be fully-automatic stationary aa that is actually capable of going pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew

not a hard concept. go at it dice
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


NoctyrneSAGA

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Thursday, October 10th 2013, 9:48pm

Taking a jetski on round start ( or midround ) to the opposing "uncap" and stealing whatever asset you can see is just abusive, the effort it takes to defend against that is unreasonable, and the reward for successfully stealing the MBT or MAA is essentially victory for your team, you don't even have to USE the asset you've stolen, just sit back and play super super safe, sniping with it, letting your own assets push aggressively with little opposition ends in victory every time.


"unreasonable" is the key word here. I've already pushed a lot for proper base defenses, but there are apparently people with superiority complexes that throw out counters such as "If you weren't stupid you wouldn't have lost it in the first place" or "Play better" or "Take one for the team, stay inside the spawn point and wait for them to show up." The most absurd of course is that people actually "laugh at the trouble players have in regards to guarding base assets and feel sorry they suck at the game so much."
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Aenonar

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Thursday, October 10th 2013, 10:25pm

Yeah, Auto SAA is awesome but still not quite there... An easy fix for base defense is to have the choppers down on the ground behind the SAA so it can see the whole area so it can cover everything without any blind spots. SAA of roof wouldn't be able to cover ground stealing in OB, even though it should really be an uncap there as well... Much easier to refuel and rearm a chopper on the ground compared to an apartment building anyways...

Quoted

(14:06:57) Riesig: I should stop now. People might get sig material again

NoctyrneSAGA

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Thursday, October 10th 2013, 10:32pm

@Aenonar

I was thinking something more along the lines of making approaching the enemy uncap a terrifying experience. I think the SAA could be augmented by adding on a SAM battery that automatically performs an unbreakable top-down attack with 8+ missiles. And with some sort of special lock-on sound. Who the hell wouldn't be scared to death by 8+ missiles going up and coming straight down on top of you?
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Sheepnub

I pity the wool

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Thursday, October 10th 2013, 10:35pm

@Aenonar

I was thinking something more along the lines of making approaching the enemy uncap a terrifying experience. I think the SAA could be augmented by adding on a SAM battery that automatically performs an unbreakable top-down attack with 8+ missiles. And with some sort of special lock-on sound. Who the hell wouldn't be scared to death by 8+ missiles going up and coming straight down on top of you?

that would be unreasonable.

Currently, its a "pewpewpew..FUCK WE'RE GETTING SHOT RETREAT".
If your battery-idea would be implemented, it would mean instant death. Meaning...it would become an effective way to lure enemies into it, and go like 3..2..1...BOOM DEAD TROLOLOL

If you make it TOO powerful, it unlocks trolling potential. which is bad. It should stop idiots from taking your shit when you're not there: That does not have to involve TTK's of 0
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


Darktan13

Unhappy Camper

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  • "Darktan13" started this thread

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8

Thursday, October 10th 2013, 10:37pm

"If you weren't stupid you wouldn't have lost it in the first place"


Except this is true to an extent, so long as there's not an instakill upon entering the uncap it will be possible to steal, and I think it SHOULD be still possible to steal assets, it's another thing to defend/manage for the team and the tactics to steal/prevent steals can really add to the game as a whole. at your second post, no, just no, steals should still be possible, some automated deterrent ( like the OOB timer, or a relatively effective automated SAA ) is desirable, but removing steals from play just isn't interesting, you should still have to look after your own assets.

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"

EMPOWER EMPOWER EMPOWER

Sheepnub

I pity the wool

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Thursday, October 10th 2013, 10:39pm

but removing steals from play just isn't interesting, you should still have to look after your own assets.

i disagree. This just adds another bullshit-tactic to the game, keepin people away from the actual fight at the objective.

If one doesn't want to do a certain thing, fine. But it shouldnt mean that the enemy then gains access to that thing.

uncap = gtfo enemy
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


Darktan13

Unhappy Camper

(4,624)

  • "Darktan13" started this thread

Posts: 1,401

Date of registration
: Feb 13th 2012

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10

Thursday, October 10th 2013, 11:01pm

i disagree. This just adds another bullshit-tactic to the game, keepin people away from the actual fight at the objective.

If one doesn't want to do a certain thing, fine. But it shouldnt mean that the enemy then gains access to that thing.

uncap = gtfo enemy


I think you misunderstand a bit perhaps, I'm suggesting that the automated defences ( OOB timer + SAA ) should be potent enough it takes several co-ordinated players ( essentially having to distract the SAA for long enough for you to get away, so long as the SAA is not instant-death and only engages one target at a time, this will be possible ) to successfully steal an asset with failure as a real possibility WITHOUT the intervention of additional defenders ( currently, in BF3 and moreso in BF4, one guy can easily steal whatever he wants when he wants, this is poor implementation )

The only things capable of taking up the SAAs time for any useful length of time is a vehicle of some description, if the SAA was effective, it'd probably take several tickets, excellent timing and the loss of one or more vehicle assets for the STEALING team in order to give the stealers a chance of pulling it off successfully ( say on SoS - transport heli + reps to give space to potentially steal attack heli ) would essentially make casual stealing impossible, only co-ordinated multiple players would be able to attempt a steal against ZERO defenders.

The alternative would be to make it physically impossible to ever steal ever by either turning OOB deeper inside the uncap ( right beside the vehicles ) into insta or near instakill ( two layer OOB yo ) or by making the SAA a doom insta-cannon. Whilst those would be effective, I think it'd completely remove a potentially interesting part of the game for more organised / clued in players when ramping up the requirements would essentially prevent most asshattery.

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"

EMPOWER EMPOWER EMPOWER