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rainkloud

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Saturday, August 17th 2013, 3:52am

The Case For The 2 Hit Heatseeker Kill on Jets

Alright, so without flourishes here's my pitch:


Jet pilots can bail after taking 2 hits from another jet's HS to avoid crediting them with a kill. A large portion of the time the bailer will suicide. This renders heats considerably less useful as their sole appeal is to increase AtoA capabilities. In the vast majority of cases the gun is both easier to use and more effective. My argument is that survival rates for land and heli engagements are considerably lower than with jets. If a jet pilot has failed to properly manager their counter measures and hasn't got support from their AA/wingman then they deserve to die. There are some early indications that reload time on CM's has been increased and that below radar is gone from jets and those are both solid steps in increasing the efficacy but they don't properly address the issue of bailing to avoid a kill.


This will also allow for more competition in the skies. I'm a pilot of some skill and I can often go through several matches without facing a challenge. I want someone who has only moderate skill to be able to equip the right weapon and pick the right opportunity and temporarily neutralize me until I respawn.


Why it's fair


  • BF4 will have limited ammo - HS shouldn't be able to be spammed
  • Presuming that planes will only be able to have AA or AG there has to be a compelling reason to choose HS
  • Allows for players who don't have total mastery to still compete
  • Rewards players for their contribution and properly deducts a ticket from the opposing team

To be clear, the increase in damage should only be against other jets. Helo damages are fine.

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Saturday, August 17th 2013, 4:02am

Judging by the fact there's now AA jets and AG jets, I think this should only apply to AA jets.

See, in real life the A-10 warthog has landed without a wing after taking heavy Flak fire, since the A-10 is pretty much built to survive anything. I also think that it would help the AG jets survive a confrontation with an AA jet if they're in the same map types-- which has been implied by the fact they have separate load outs.


That said, we now have Active-Radar missiles alongside Heatseekers, so we'll have to see what the difference is. In real life, Active-Radar missiles have longer range, but are easily to fool with ECM and stealth fighters, while Heatseekers are close-quarters, harder to detect, and only blocked with flares and maneuvering.

Either way, I completely agree.

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Saturday, August 17th 2013, 4:12am

Yeah, it's pretty frustrating and a turn off for someone like me who only barely managed to get heat seekers, and when he does get two direct hits he doesn't get a kill.
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rainkloud

jet proximity scan <3

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Saturday, August 17th 2013, 4:13am

Indeed, AG jets are more durable in general and since they have lower speed it's entirely reasonable that they be able to endure more.

The active radar missiles will likely have a longer range but require a constant lock to hit. Not sure where the damage will fall at. I think a case could be made that you could keep it the same as heats and have the requirement for a constant lock offset by the benefit of longer range.

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Saturday, August 17th 2013, 4:18am

I'm wondering if the active radar missiles have different countermeasures than the heat seekers, of course it makes the most sense, but still.

It'd be a little problematic if there was no way to avoid both types of missiles in a single round. Maybe they'll finally make them able to be dodged?

On the other side of things, we haven't seen how/if jets can get disabled, which might make the two-hit kill not as needed if they don't get disabled in the same way.

rainkloud

jet proximity scan <3

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Saturday, August 17th 2013, 4:41am

I thought as much when I viewed the files but I came to the same conclusion: Too punitive. Rather, I reckon they will instead have flares function as a short TTL/ Short reload and ECM as long TTL/ Long reload.

On your last point, are you referring to the possibility of a disable that locks out the ejection seat?

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Saturday, August 17th 2013, 4:52am

Yeah, two hit kill for AA jets, but not for AG jets makes sense both realistically and balance wise.
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NoctyrneSAGA

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Saturday, August 17th 2013, 5:06am

@Joltthecoat

What do you mean by "there's now AA jets and AG jets?" BF3 already divided the Warthog/Frogfoot and the Hornet/Flanker/F-35 into Ground Attack and Fighter (AA). I don't see this as anything new or am I missing something?
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rainkloud

jet proximity scan <3

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Saturday, August 17th 2013, 5:10am

I gather what he means is that they have separate loadouts for specs now. Effectively it wouldn't make a difference since you can adjust the damage even if that weren't the case.

Toshiro

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Saturday, August 17th 2013, 5:10am

We are assuming that the AG and AA jets will be on the same maps.

EDIT: Rainkloud somewhat ninja'd me.
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