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Frosty

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Sunday, July 28th 2013, 10:14pm

Mortars in BF4?

(Again, no official confirmation yet. Not as far as I know, at least.)

What do you think about the mortar returning to BF4, or mortars in general?

Personally, I was really looking forward to portable mortars in BF3, but their implementation is just awful IMO. Using mortars in BF3 is both boring and pointless. I was hoping for some elaborate "observed fire" system where other players can designate targets for you, allowing you to switch to a "shell cam" so you could adjust your angle until you were on target. That's pretty much how BF1942's artillery system worked, anyway. But as we know, using the mortar in BF3 consists of clicking on red points on the minimap, hoping that they don't move too much before the payload arrives. It's neither very exciting, nor very effective. In fact, the mortar is simply impractical on most Conquest maps.

So I'm wondering, will DICE repeat the same mistake with mortars in BF4?
Will mortars even be part of BF4? (I believe so. The support class still needs more gadgets.)
Or will they go the route of replacing the portable mortar with a mortar designator like in BC1/BC2?

Actually, I'm kind of a fan of the mortar designator. For those who don't know, it's a gadget that allows you to call in a light mortar barrage every minute or so, requiring you to sit still and "paint" your target for a short duration before the barrage comes in. Attentive players could usually get away from it without taking too much damage, but staying within the area usually meant certain death. While many people decried it as lame or OP (probably because it was a recon gadget in BC2, and the recon hate was strong in the BC2 community), IMO it was a practical, well-balanced and versatile gadget. From wiping out camping snipers to bringing down buildings, this thing had a variety of tactical applications. The most interesting of them, I find, was that it acted as an effective counter against vehicle campers, especially the kind that sits just outside of AT weapon range and constantly gets repaired by engineers. The mortar strike didn't just kill the engineers, but the vehicle as well if it didn't move. And it was SATISFYING.

Anyway, seeing how the support in BF4 will lose C4 and apparently be stuck without any anti-vehicle weapons, I think the mortar designator might be just what he needs to give him a little bit more versatility. Also, it fits the role of the class.

What do you think DICE will do? Or what would you like to see?

mmacola

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Sunday, July 28th 2013, 10:32pm

Make it so you can hear when a mortar is coming (the farther you are away from it, the longer the warning since it is really high vs one that is shot from close) so you can get to cover. On the other hand, make it more powerful.

225 direct impact damage with 100 splash over 1.2/5 meters seems alright.

Also, it could use the same ammo system we see on vehicles, like you start with 3 rounds (6 with explosive/ammo perk), you take 5 seconds to reload the mortar and you get new shells every 15 seconds (maybe you could also need to have an ammo pack near you to replenish them, since now it isn't mandatory to select them so it would stop a little of the spam).

And of course, fix how mortars work. In bf3, you can hit a wall above you but the shot will still hit where you were aiming. Make it so it is actually a projectile, and that the same is doing an arc. You should be able to protect yourself from mortars horizontally and not only vertically. Another idea is that when you fire a mortar, you shouldn't be fixed on the map as if you were spotted, but instead whenever you fire you appear on the minimap (for half a sec) even if you're out of the mini map zoom (similar to how CoD mini map works)

But tbh, if it weren't included in the game I wouldn't miss it.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "mmacola" (Jul 28th 2013, 10:42pm)


Toshiro46

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Monday, July 29th 2013, 2:34am

@mmacola

I am quite sure that the "new" ammo system we saw in vehicles was not semi limited ammo, but rather a setting for the alpha. It has been confirmed, I think, that vehicles have limited ammo.
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mmacola

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Monday, July 29th 2013, 2:42am

@mmacola

I am quite sure that the "new" ammo system we saw in vehicles was not semi limited ammo, but rather a setting for the alpha. It has been confirmed, I think, that vehicles have limited ammo.
Then if the support gets the Mortar (in the way that I suggested), he would be much less of a spammy annoyance at mcoms and turn into a limited threat.

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Monday, July 29th 2013, 2:47am

Except ammo pack. It is of my opinion that mortars should have a high amount of ammo in reserve (10?), but have the ammo pack do nothing for it. That way, selfish support players will not arise.
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Monday, July 29th 2013, 3:27am

They need also make so you dont reveal the mortar position. limited Ammo* with long restocking timer and buff the damage and splash area**.

* - Give the Mortar the same ammo capacity as RPG.
** - Main blast should do 90 dmg while the slash does 50 and double the blast radius of the main blast and splash of the BF3 Mortar for BF4.

Something along these lines should make the mortar actually useful. As it is now it is utterly useless.



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Monday, July 29th 2013, 4:31am

If they do mortars, they either need to make them fire faster and do less damage (basically frag rounds from afar) or they need to fire slower and do more damage/have a bigger radius. If they could find a healthy balance like that, it would work. What doesn't work is the slowass pea shooter in BF3.

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Monday, July 29th 2013, 7:55pm

I would rather see much fewer mortars that do more damage than mortars with lots of ammunition basically being just a general annoyance. Like an errant mosquito or a thirteen year old on the internet.

This way the mortars would fall back onto the whole "high risk/high reward" motif and would actually be able to accomplish some things for the team. hey were hardly used in BF3 for being such an amazing tool conceptually.
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Monday, July 29th 2013, 7:59pm

I would rather see much fewer mortars that do more damage than mortars with lots of ammunition basically being just a general annoyance.


Good point (And one I think you can apply to many things in terms of balancing actually...). Never been a massive fan of the BF3 Mortar (Cos I could never get the bastard up without getting hit by one myself) so I can't say the idea thrills me but honestly, like everything, if its done well that it'll probably be a good thing. If you ask me:
- You shouldn't be able to 'Silence' the bastard!
- Limited ammo and greater damage sounds better than unlimited ammo and no damage (Again, good point Rags)
- You should only appear on the minimap when you fire the bastard or if you're spotted, it shouldn't remain their forever like it does now

That's all I got now :P

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Monday, July 29th 2013, 8:27pm

I would rather see much fewer mortars that do more damage than mortars with lots of ammunition basically being just a general annoyance.


Good point (And one I think you can apply to many things in terms of balancing actually...). Never been a massive fan of the BF3 Mortar (Cos I could never get the bastard up without getting hit by one myself) so I can't say the idea thrills me but honestly, like everything, if its done well that it'll probably be a good thing. If you ask me:
- You shouldn't be able to 'Silence' the bastard!
- Limited ammo and greater damage sounds better than unlimited ammo and no damage (Again, good point Rags)
- You should only appear on the minimap when you fire the bastard or if you're spotted, it shouldn't remain their forever like it does now

That's all I got now :P

The reason people abuse the silencer is because of #3, plus because the damn thing is 100% accurate and instakills enemy mortar when hit..... So you're instantly fucked when you fire (or even set up thanks the the stupid bug) which makes it 100% useless without a silencer...


Yes it should make a sound, but if it shows up on the minimap automatically it's just useless and begging to be killed unless you quickly run away (against a skilled mortar you just have enough time to exit + take a few steps before the shell hits you, removing a big chunk of health...)


What current mortar needs to even work:

Not show up on minimap automatically.
Far more damage.
Way less accuracy.


I'd rather have the mortar strike tbh... hand held mortars are pretty much doomed to be unbalanced...

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