Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

J35T3R

Punctual Joker

(74)

Posts: 1,213

Date of registration
: Mar 21st 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 6

  • Send private message

271

Tuesday, September 3rd 2013, 1:05am

Pre beta download starts for me on the 28th with the exclusive i can upload again as i did with sym last time. The file to the ftp server if it releases earlier than you.. but i would think it would be opened up world wide at the same time
PC: Platform: PC





youtube chanel HIPFIREGAMER - YouTube

Posts: 2

Date of registration
: Sep 5th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

272

Thursday, September 5th 2013, 2:28am

Man people REALLY need to stop bitching about BA stats. If ANYTHING they need to have a longer range of OHK, though I wouldn't say this applies liberally to every BA rifle.

Really, there needs to be a balance between faster shooting/aiming rifles like the Scout and the true "peg the bullseye at 1000m" rifles like the M98B, etc.

There's ALREADY damn OHK weapons in BF3, they're called shotgun slugs. And yeah, their drop off is much shorter than a sniper rifle, but they're also deadly in CQ, where a BA is all but useless. I don't think many people fear an M98B in CQ, but a good player with slugs? You better gtfo.

I'm cool with these longer range beast of a rifles having uber long reload times, rechamber times, and them being worthless in CQ. I could care less about all that. What I hate is hitting a running target in the chest at 500m and them not dying. It's simply not fair to put things so that the close quarters classes are capable of killing targets quickly with their weapons, and the recon players are forced to either hit moving targets in the head (sometimes that isn't even a kil...), or hit them twice. Neither is a good option, and even a semi decent player will be able to find cover, heal up, and go about their business before you can hit them again.
I'm not saying that everyone should be good at everything, but honestly, a good assault player is far better equipped to do a ton of work in a close quarters situation than a good recon player is in an equally good long range situation.

If you don't think Recon needs a buff, just look at overall play stats. It's a noted past time to comment on how "useless recon players are", and some are. But honestly, with the way that BA rifles were "balanced" in BF3, it's a lot easier to be a decent Assault/Engineer/Support player than it is to be a decent Recon player. Most of my friends and I go play Hardcore when we want to snipe. At least there aiming is rewarded.

Posts: 1

Date of registration
: Sep 6th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

273

Friday, September 6th 2013, 7:12pm

In the few vids i saw from the alpha til now, it seems like the AEK got a different recoil pattern? Now, it goes up und to the left, so you have to move your hand down and to the right. But in the vids it seems like it is moving up and to the right, like the M16 in BF3 now.

Frosty

Staying frosty.

(172)

Posts: 567

Date of registration
: Jul 19th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 6

  • Send private message

274

Saturday, September 7th 2013, 7:49am

Man people REALLY need to stop bitching about BA stats. If ANYTHING they need to have a longer range of OHK, though I wouldn't say this applies liberally to every BA rifle.

Really, there needs to be a balance between faster shooting/aiming rifles like the Scout and the true "peg the bullseye at 1000m" rifles like the M98B, etc.

There's ALREADY damn OHK weapons in BF3, they're called shotgun slugs. And yeah, their drop off is much shorter than a sniper rifle, but they're also deadly in CQ, where a BA is all but useless. I don't think many people fear an M98B in CQ, but a good player with slugs? You better gtfo.

I'm cool with these longer range beast of a rifles having uber long reload times, rechamber times, and them being worthless in CQ. I could care less about all that. What I hate is hitting a running target in the chest at 500m and them not dying. It's simply not fair to put things so that the close quarters classes are capable of killing targets quickly with their weapons, and the recon players are forced to either hit moving targets in the head (sometimes that isn't even a kil...), or hit them twice. Neither is a good option, and even a semi decent player will be able to find cover, heal up, and go about their business before you can hit them again.
I'm not saying that everyone should be good at everything, but honestly, a good assault player is far better equipped to do a ton of work in a close quarters situation than a good recon player is in an equally good long range situation.

If you don't think Recon needs a buff, just look at overall play stats. It's a noted past time to comment on how "useless recon players are", and some are. But honestly, with the way that BA rifles were "balanced" in BF3, it's a lot easier to be a decent Assault/Engineer/Support player than it is to be a decent Recon player. Most of my friends and I go play Hardcore when we want to snipe. At least there aiming is rewarded.
I agree that recons are weak in BF3, but it has nothing to do with bolt-action rifles requiring headshots for a 1HK out of close range. BA's were extremely powerful in BFBC2 even though they couldn't 1HK to the torso at range either. Rather than that, BAs were overnerfed in other ways, like giving them an atrocious cycle time, bright scope glint and insane amount of bullet drop, as well as making them completely useless under suppression. Many of these problems are being taken care of in BF4 and therefore should make it much easier to pull off proper headshots at long range. Also, the recon class as a whole is getting a lot of love with C4, motion sensors and the personal laser designator. Some sort of balance has to be maintained so that recons with bolt-action rifles won't utterly dominate on large open maps. I think the M82A3 is going to cause enough rage even if there's only 1 or 2 per map.

Posts: 2

Date of registration
: Sep 5th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 3

  • Send private message

275

Monday, September 9th 2013, 1:40am

Man people REALLY need to stop bitching about BA stats. If ANYTHING they need to have a longer range of OHK, though I wouldn't say this applies liberally to every BA rifle.

Really, there needs to be a balance between faster shooting/aiming rifles like the Scout and the true "peg the bullseye at 1000m" rifles like the M98B, etc.

There's ALREADY damn OHK weapons in BF3, they're called shotgun slugs. And yeah, their drop off is much shorter than a sniper rifle, but they're also deadly in CQ, where a BA is all but useless. I don't think many people fear an M98B in CQ, but a good player with slugs? You better gtfo.

I'm cool with these longer range beast of a rifles having uber long reload times, rechamber times, and them being worthless in CQ. I could care less about all that. What I hate is hitting a running target in the chest at 500m and them not dying. It's simply not fair to put things so that the close quarters classes are capable of killing targets quickly with their weapons, and the recon players are forced to either hit moving targets in the head (sometimes that isn't even a kil...), or hit them twice. Neither is a good option, and even a semi decent player will be able to find cover, heal up, and go about their business before you can hit them again.
I'm not saying that everyone should be good at everything, but honestly, a good assault player is far better equipped to do a ton of work in a close quarters situation than a good recon player is in an equally good long range situation.

If you don't think Recon needs a buff, just look at overall play stats. It's a noted past time to comment on how "useless recon players are", and some are. But honestly, with the way that BA rifles were "balanced" in BF3, it's a lot easier to be a decent Assault/Engineer/Support player than it is to be a decent Recon player. Most of my friends and I go play Hardcore when we want to snipe. At least there aiming is rewarded.
I agree that recons are weak in BF3, but it has nothing to do with bolt-action rifles requiring headshots for a 1HK out of close range. BA's were extremely powerful in BFBC2 even though they couldn't 1HK to the torso at range either. Rather than that, BAs were overnerfed in other ways, like giving them an atrocious cycle time, bright scope glint and insane amount of bullet drop, as well as making them completely useless under suppression. Many of these problems are being taken care of in BF4 and therefore should make it much easier to pull off proper headshots at long range. Also, the recon class as a whole is getting a lot of love with C4, motion sensors and the personal laser designator. Some sort of balance has to be maintained so that recons with bolt-action rifles won't utterly dominate on large open maps. I think the M82A3 is going to cause enough rage even if there's only 1 or 2 per map.
I agree that those things definitely handicapped snipers as well, but really the only good argument against not having OHK BA's is "I don't wanna get shot by them", and that's not a very good argument at all.

Basically, as far as I'm concerned, every class in the game (BF3) is capable of excelling at their role... except the recon.

Assault is well capable of walking into a close quarters engagement and killing people left and right, reviving when necessary, etc.

Engineers are capable of dealing with vehicles (except jets... >.>), and are no sissies in CQ either.

Support, in a good position and posted up can utterly lock down an avenue of approach for enemy infantry, C4 unsuspecting vehicles, provide flank cover with Claymores, and resupply their squad.

But the recons? Yeah, you can certainly run around as an "aggressive recon", sporting a PDW, and causing havoc. I've done my fair share of that.
But as for the long range recon? The true "marksmen" of BF3? Honestly, we get screwed.

You've got two classes of sniper rifles:

-DMR's
-BA's

They can both be deadly under the right circumstances, but all in all, my question is why, at 100+ meters is an SV98 equal to an M98B? Other than bullet drop and re-chamber time, you STILL have to headshot someone. Unless they're injured.

I would much rather keep the long reload time, and even force people to go prone or use a bi-pod, or even remove the straight pull bolt from the heavier BA's, and have a good range of OHK in the chest. I'm not asking for or advocating OHK no matter where, but honestly, an M98B would !%#@ing destroy your body with a chest shot. Period.

You can say "well the assault rifles aren't 100% realistic either", but guess what? They're not as punished by that fact. Even though in real life you could kill someone with a single shot of an M16, and in BF3 it takes 3-4, you can hit someone with those rounds EXPONENTIALLY faster than you can hit someone twice with an M98B. And that's assuming in the time it took you to reload they didn't scurry behind an obstacle, which even a half-decent player will do.

It comes down to a difference of asked-for skill from each of the classes, and the recon is definitely, without-question, on the losing end of that spectrum. Perhaps I shouldn't say "the recon can't excel at their role", but instead "they can excel, but the bar is much, much higher" There are amazing recon players out there, absolutely. I'm a damn good sniper myself, and usually roll with 2-3 other snipers, and we cause havoc in games. But honestly, a decent Assault player can cause just as much damage as a good sniper can. So something is obviously unbalanced.

TLDR suggestion:

Seperate BA's into two groups:

1. Quicker, "twitch" shot rifles like the scout elite.
2. Much more cumbersome rifles like the M98B that reward good aim, but have long reload times, and aren't really usable in CQ.

Nick 30075

2manyPosts4me

(1,936)

Posts: 9,755

Date of registration
: Jan 7th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: 'Murrica

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

276

Monday, September 9th 2013, 2:04am

^Amusing idea that the M98B rewards good aim. It's the most forgiving to bad aim, if that's what you meant. And good aim isn't rewarded in HC; bad aim just isn't punished. HC is for people who are so irredeemably bad at sniping that they can't even aim at the head with a sniper that functionally doesn't experience drop. If you play HC just to snipe, it's probably because you suck too much to do it elsewhere.

What made Recons bad in BF3 was how much damage other weapons dealt up close. An assault rifle has the poor recon dead before he can switch to his pistol to try to survive. That said, I favor strong nerfs to bolt-actions in general. You can't fix stupid but you can fix the outlets for people's stupidity.


And now to remove some personal bias and talk more rationally. The flaw with Recon was, as noted above, that other weapons could beat the Recon guy up close far too easily and consistently. If the guns behave like in the Alpha, they'll be 5-6 hit kills up close, which is huge in terms of survivability. Compare the BC XM8P to a BF3 M16A3. Both were dominant in their respective games, but the A3 just kills a lot faster. We're taking bolt-actions and (roughly) copy/pasting them to BF4 while nerfing their competition and counters. This strike me as bolt-actions getting a buff rather than a nerf (which displeases me due to personal bias, but for your sake should be a good thing), given that weapon "overpoweredness" is relative to other weapons.

And we acknowledge that class balance is broken. But have you ever played as the sole recon with, say, an M5K, among a full team of Medics? It's incredibly powerful. Yes, you can't do medic things, but you have 11 other guys who can. And in return, you give them canned omnipotence. It's insanely good; hell, I mostly play Recon on Rush because putting a TUGS next to the objective before arming tends to get you that bomb much, much more consistently. And defense goes much the same as you can use a TUGS to plan flanking maneuvers if you toss it in heavily-trafficked areas. A lone recon is really, really bad on his own; a mountain sniper is worse than an AFK as at least the AFK is gone after five minutes; but a recon as a part of a coordinated team is worth more to his team than a single medic. But that requires your teammates be competent which, let's be honest, isn't usually going to happen.

If you care about your teammates and trying to help them win, Recon is and always has been a PDW/shotgun class, with the occasional bolt-action used to clear out a bipod nest, but never more than that. Kit balance is really off right now, but that means that you can rely on teammates to do the things that you'd do as a medic for you; in return, you give them something that matters a lot more than what you're losing.
Emperor Nick of the Cult of Defibrillation
Sith Deity of Thread-Killing


I'm basically just a degenerate weeb who doesn't post much nowadays.

I'm secretly Old Man Symthic

Siggy thingies


Gaming Stuff


Words of Wisdom (not really)

Quoted from "Blue Panda"

You're fedorable :love:

Quoted from "ToTheSun!"

I have the highest postcount. Nick doesn't count.

Quoted

23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm -
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Okay
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm stabbing everyone
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Bye guys
23:44 Nick: *flips table*
23:44 Legion: Bye, happy stabbing
23:44 *** Lt_Col_Jesus quit (Quit: off to murder the public at large).

Quoted

10:41 LB: You just...reanimated Steve Jobs.
10:41 Dice: Well that would be unfortunate, I was just getting used to him being dead.

Quoted from "Pheozero"

... fuck. Damn you hindsight!

Quoted

23:58 Failure117: CAUSE IM FREEE
23:58 Nick: AS A BIIIIRD NOW
23:58 Failure117: FREEE OF NICK'S WORM RAPE

Quoted

ViperFTW: HEY LOOK
ViperFTW: AN ALIEN LASER FISH THE SIZE OF THE SUN
ViperFTW: I WANT TO SWAT IT WITH MY COMICLY LARGE SWORD
ViperFTW: WITH
ViperFTW: THIS
ViperFTW: AS
ViperFTW: MY
ViperFTW: FUUUUCKING SOUNDTRACK :DDDD
(the album in question)


Posts: 706

Date of registration
: Mar 30th 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 6

  • Send private message

277

Monday, September 9th 2013, 2:15am

1HK at range would be so stupidly over powered and reward people who can't aim. I trust DICE wouldn't implement something like that.

Nick 30075

2manyPosts4me

(1,936)

Posts: 9,755

Date of registration
: Jan 7th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: 'Murrica

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

278

Monday, September 9th 2013, 2:45am

^Well, there's a difference between adding 5m to the current OHK distance of bolt-actions and adding 20-30m. I'd assume that common sense wouldn't see the OHK distance past 25m, which is definitely beyond where slug shotguns can OHK (upper chest aside, but shotguns should required less precision as a tradeoff for losing function over range).
Emperor Nick of the Cult of Defibrillation
Sith Deity of Thread-Killing


I'm basically just a degenerate weeb who doesn't post much nowadays.

I'm secretly Old Man Symthic

Siggy thingies


Gaming Stuff


Words of Wisdom (not really)

Quoted from "Blue Panda"

You're fedorable :love:

Quoted from "ToTheSun!"

I have the highest postcount. Nick doesn't count.

Quoted

23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm -
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Okay
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: I'm stabbing everyone
23:44 Lt_Col_Jesus: Bye guys
23:44 Nick: *flips table*
23:44 Legion: Bye, happy stabbing
23:44 *** Lt_Col_Jesus quit (Quit: off to murder the public at large).

Quoted

10:41 LB: You just...reanimated Steve Jobs.
10:41 Dice: Well that would be unfortunate, I was just getting used to him being dead.

Quoted from "Pheozero"

... fuck. Damn you hindsight!

Quoted

23:58 Failure117: CAUSE IM FREEE
23:58 Nick: AS A BIIIIRD NOW
23:58 Failure117: FREEE OF NICK'S WORM RAPE

Quoted

ViperFTW: HEY LOOK
ViperFTW: AN ALIEN LASER FISH THE SIZE OF THE SUN
ViperFTW: I WANT TO SWAT IT WITH MY COMICLY LARGE SWORD
ViperFTW: WITH
ViperFTW: THIS
ViperFTW: AS
ViperFTW: MY
ViperFTW: FUUUUCKING SOUNDTRACK :DDDD
(the album in question)


J35T3R

Punctual Joker

(74)

Posts: 1,213

Date of registration
: Mar 21st 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 6

  • Send private message

279

Monday, September 9th 2013, 2:47am

only one weapon does that presently the m82a3 mid ... however i want to see the damage start and stop for the srr 61 aka intervention before i rule it out totaly
PC: Platform: PC





youtube chanel HIPFIREGAMER - YouTube