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  • "Smithy507" started this thread

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Thursday, August 11th 2016, 12:43pm

Breaking hitboxes

First off, I have the utmost respect for the work symthic has done for the BF community and look forward to future information on bf1. That said I played in a pub last night with some of the crew and was pretty disgusted. Every single member was doing everything possible to break hitboxes and break animations. Guy's plowing around the corner at foot level zouzou jumping then spamming the hell out of crouch. Is this how SYM thinks the game should be played, by breaking it in every way possible? I noticed a streamer playing at the same time and found this on his vod Gfycat GIFs GIF | Create, Discover and Share on Gfycat


If you guys want to delete this that's fine, call me a salty bitch, whatever. Just curious what justifications you have for doing everything possible to eliminate skill from the game.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Smithy507" (Aug 11th 2016, 7:05pm) with the following reason: word, another word


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Thursday, August 11th 2016, 12:44pm

Yes.
[Aristocrat's Shoes]
TLDR -
Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"

Zer0Cod3x

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Thursday, August 11th 2016, 1:11pm

Is this how SYM thinks the game should be played, by breaking it in every way possible?

If it's in the game, and gives you an advantage, then why not use it?

Just curious what justifications you have for doing everything possible to eliminate skill from the game.

The justification of wanting to actually win the match.

I don't really care how "disgusting" or "skilless" it is. The game doesn't determine whether you win or not by how "ethically" you played, but rather by who killed the other person. If this glitch helps you to kill the other person, then I see no problem in using it.

Sure, it's unintended, and shouldn't be in the game. But whilst it is, I see no problem in using it.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


Miffyli

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Thursday, August 11th 2016, 1:32pm

This should be clarified somewhere: While Team Sym is connected with Symthic community, they are not the same. Many SYM members do not visit these forums, and many of the members of this forum aren't part of the Team Sym. I don't mind chatting about Team Sym on these forums though, as long as it doesn't flood all other posts.

There are mechanics that, imho, shouldn't be used in games (say, tap firing for zero recoil/spread). However things you mentioned seem 'fair enough' to me personally. Creating working hitboxes is very hard, and the jump-dodging is something many do at various levels of success.
Team Sym is also a top(?) tier "pro" clan, so the players do play for winning and score 100%. I imagine they don't shy using all kinds of tricks to their advantage.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

Darktan13

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Thursday, August 11th 2016, 2:57pm

Is this how SYM thinks the game should be played, by breaking it in every way possible?


First, you don't know what skill is, and second,

Yes, you should use every available in-game tool that maximises your chances of winning. To do anything less is not playing to win.

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"

EMPOWER EMPOWER EMPOWER

marbleduck

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Thursday, August 11th 2016, 5:56pm

First off, I have the utmost respect for the work symthic has done of the BF community and look forward to future information on bf1. That said I played in a pub last night with some of the crew and was pretty disgusted. Every single member was doing everything possible to break hitboxes and break animations. Guy's plowing around the corner at foot level zouzou jumping then spamming the hell out of crouch. Is this how SYM thinks the game should be played, by breaking it in every way possible? I noticed a streamer playing at the same time and found this on his vod Gfycat GIFs GIF | Create, Discover and Share on Gfycat


If you guys want to delete this that's fine, call me a salty bitch, whatever. Just curious what justifications you have for doing everything possible to eliminate skill from the game.


How does the zouzou jump "eliminate skill from the game"? It's not easy to pull off, and is a double-edged sword which can be just as harmful to the person using it as he who is on the receiving end when used improperly. In the example, Grandbeast correctly predicted Dubby's behavior, and got a kill for it. Had Dubby instead peeked the corner with Grandbeast mid-jump, Dubby would have had a huge advantage, since you can't shoot while in the air.

Crouch spamming while being accurate takes quite a bit of practice as well.

Platoon Marble Duck

Hate Mail

"you obviously don't know what an argument is as there is only one person battling. Do you really fucking think I want subs? You think you can act all big and powerful just because you sit on a computer at least 6 hours a day like the probably nerdy unwanted retard you are with 4.3k subs? You think 4.3k subs is a lot? LOL you need medicine man. I don't want any subs as i just have a google account for other media and writing comments. Think twice before you act. You even said in your video you aren't that great of a player, and the comments agree you aren't. Maybe you should once again think twice before you act, stop being such an annoying, ignorant bastard that everyone wants to shut up, and god, literally, just shut up. Your voice gave me a headache :s"

"As a youtuber shouldn't be trying to be reeling in your viewers with exciting stuff being said not your boring ass commentary for your video"

"The more you watch his vid the dumber he gets I swear he's borderline autistic look I got shot behind cover beacuase thin sheets metal are unpenetrable. Bf4 is just as quiet and tactical as bf3 random explosion in the background . Player has dissconected from chat
You started playing bf3 and never touched bfc1/2. Please do yourself a favor and shutdown your generic cod channel down"

"Nice clickb8 Faggot w8ting for your shit tier video to disable comments . Fucking newfag cancer go play some cod you activisiom cock faggot"

"I don't see why he [MarbleDuck] always tries to shit on levelcap he is better and has a million more subs...and also "there isnt a best gun in she game there are guns that are better that others at different engagement distances" yes thats true and whichever is the best/most average at all of them is the "best gun""

"Marbleduck you don't know shit lol levelcap knows more than you do you cant talk about how someone puts up garbage when you do yourself your a newcomer to YouTube acting like you know shit step up in the food chain first then you have the right to talk otherwise your just a fish trying to compete with sharks"

"Why don't we just witness "LevelCap vs MarbleDuck" One on One both on Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 4 seen as there is so much Controversy about the Two Youtubers"

"stfu cunt, BF3 was way better end of discussion"

"Stfu man, you're be littleing the most looked upon Battlefield Youtuber. No one cares about you, how much of an ego you have, or quite frankly your opinion. It's a fucking game.... Does it really fucking matter? Pathetic man."

"fuck you asshole, dont talk shit about total"

"Wtf is your problem? You have no subs and he has millions, yet you pick on him like some kind of stubborn, ignorant, rude child born with a silver spoon is his mouth. It's easy to do that, for example... You said there was no background noise yet there is. You say you're a fairly good player, you're not."

"please talk like a normal person and not like a professional"

  • "Smithy507" started this thread

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Thursday, August 11th 2016, 7:43pm

you should use every available in-game tool that maximises your chances of winning
I don't consider a broken animation to be a "tool", I consider it to be a glitch that is being exploited. A tool is something that was thoughtfully put in the game. With that logic, I should just glitch into the ceiling on lockers or metro, cause thats okay right...

How does the zouzou jump "eliminate skill from the game"? It's not easy to pull off, and is a double-edged sword which can be just as harmful to the person using it as he who is on the receiving end when used improperly. In the example, Grandbeast correctly predicted Dubby's behavior, and got a kill for it. Had Dubby instead peeked the corner with Grandbeast mid-jump, Dubby would have had a huge advantage, since you can't shoot while in the air.

Crouch spamming while being accurate takes quite a bit of practice as well.
Okay, eliminating skill from the game was poorly worded on my part. There were several instances where I simply was not able to kill Grandbeast due to the broken hitbox. Several instances he was spotted on the minimap, I had the advantage of knowing he was about to round the corner and was prepared,put more than enough rounds into him that he would have died without the broken hitboxes caused by the zouzou. When a glitch causes someone to have an unfair advantage on me, yes I get salty. TBH Grandbeast is a much better and experienced player than I am. I'm fully willing to admit that but without the abuse he would have had several more deaths.

I'm not saying zouzou jumping and crouch spamming don't take skill and practice, sure they do. I'm saying the reason they are preformed is to get an unfair advantage. I know there is no "honor" in online video games, but it'd be nice if there was just a little.

Alas this is a moot argument, niether will ever be removed from the game. I apologize if I ruffled anyones feathers, I'll step out now.

Darktan13

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Thursday, August 11th 2016, 7:59pm

The use of this glitch is not unfair, all players have equal access.

Many out-of-the-map glitches are unfair as both teams do not have equal access, and as such, are justifiably banned.

Quoted

I apologize if I ruffled anyones feathers, I'll step out now.


No-ones upset about this, it's a common misunderstanding.

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"

EMPOWER EMPOWER EMPOWER

Aenonar

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Thursday, August 11th 2016, 10:07pm

Tbh it would be a pretty good idea to rename Team Sym as it has pretty much nothing to do with this website anymore... Not to mention distancing the Symthic community from other websites like battlelog and reddit...

Would hopefully improve the reputation of this website instead of the current general bad reputation it has as a bunch of tryhard abusers plus general hate as some users seem to have taken a liking for trolling and mocking people on public websites... This is a game science website, to let people know how the game works. Not about forcing personal opinions and other shit that just breeds more bullshit and hate. People are even afraid to come here to ask for help as they think everyone are elitist assholes that will insult them for not knowing everything.

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(14:06:57) Riesig: I should stop now. People might get sig material again

yugas42

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Thursday, August 11th 2016, 11:47pm

it has pretty much nothing to do with this website anymore

Team Symthic was never directly associated with the Symthic website, this has been something Team Symthic has stated from the very beginning of its run as an organized team. They are named Team Symthic simply because a majority of the members (and still all of the founding members) were Symthic community members as well, but Team Symthic isn't "sponsored" by Symthic.com. This is a concern that should have been brought up years ago because the relationship between the two entities has not changed. Furthermore, changing the name of a well recognized team this long after its inception is disruptive and would probably do more to damage the reputation of Team Symthic than it would do to improve the reputation of Symthic.com. As far as I am aware Team Symthic is well regarded in the competitive scene as a very skilled team, rather than a bunch of glitch abusers. The views of those who do not participate in these events will be different obviously, and not always correct.

You should also turn to your fellow forum members if you'd like to address trash talking on other websites, especially Reddit. I notice far more Symthic community members who frequent those boards than Team Symthic members. That's not to say that Team Symthic is completely innocent, I'm sure there is trash talking and miscommunication among them as well, but you're talking about a very small portion of the Symthic userbase when you refer to 'Team Symthic'.