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NoctyrneSAGA

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11

Thursday, June 9th 2016, 7:55am

I think the problem with automatic resupply means it makes it more viable to have more of other classes rather than actually playing support.


Did health regen make people play without medkits?
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12

Thursday, June 9th 2016, 8:16am

I think the problem with automatic resupply means it makes it more viable to have more of other classes rather than actually playing support.


Did health regen make people play without medkits?

No, but competitively the support class is never played because it's more feasible to simply respawn than have a dedicated support dropping ammo.
Having regenerating ammunition would further take away the need to have a Support soldier throwing ammo down.

The first reason that I play Support more than Assault is because health DOES regenerate with time. Medpacks speed up the process and allow healing when suppressed, but are ultimately unnecessary to heal to 100%.(Sure it takes time, but that's okay! I'm patient!)
As an Assault & Engineer, I've run out of ammo plenty of times, both with primary & secondary, leaving me with my gadgets (and a knife). With an engineer that sometimes leaves me with a rocket launcher & blowtorch, and with an Assault it always leaves me with a medkit & defibs.
That's a situation that I absolutely hate, therefore I often choose to be Support and toss ammo down.
I love the math behind the statistics
It's possible to find me online at almost any given time, due to the fact that my schedule is hectic and rather non-existent.

Who needs sleep anyways?
(PC/PS4 gamer)

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13

Thursday, June 9th 2016, 12:33pm

If support did not have to bring ammo box constantly, we would have more room for useful gadgets.

DICE needs to give support both better guns as well as better gadgets.

But keeping support sh*t while making the ammo box even more mandatory is just awful :(

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14

Thursday, June 9th 2016, 2:59pm

Quoted

potentially guaranteeing a hit. And with a lased target, it increases
damage further (unless hitting the tank at 90 degrees to its rear).
Because of these reasons, I think the lock-on sort of justifies them for
having a longer ammo regen per firing.
Looking at the poor hitrate of lockon launchers, longer ammo regen is not justified. The nature of these weapons compared to the non-lockon launchers are bad enough.


BTW, Is there a resupply time on the AA mines? If there is any at all? Once, when NavalStrike came out, they could be resupplied. But that function has been removed from the game it seems.

Imo, its pretty atrocious DICE just put 8 seconds on every rocket to replenish. It cripples conquest large gameplay for infantry.
RIP Sraw

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Iwo_Jima" (Jun 9th 2016, 3:07pm)


NoctyrneSAGA

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15

Friday, June 10th 2016, 1:04am

The first reason that I play Support more than Assault is because health DOES regenerate with time.


Same reason I play Support exclusively.

Having regenerating ammunition would further take away the need to have a Support soldier throwing ammo down.


The reason Support isn't played is because it doesn't bring anything useful.

Making Support mandatory to have solely because it is the only way to regenerate ammo is a shallow reason.

It should be made viable through new utility in the form of weapon and gadgets. Not because people are required to bring a portable ammo dispenser. Otherwise, people might as well just play it as the "ammo class."
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16

Friday, June 10th 2016, 1:25pm

Uuuuu playing the Ammo Class sounds very fun!
We should have gadgets like "increased radius" and "pink ammo box"!
To balance it out our LMGs need to be nerfed, and bipod deployment should take 32 seconds :)

Zer0Cod3x

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17

Friday, June 10th 2016, 3:42pm

The problem with support is that it requires a linear flow and a front line on a map to function effectively (i.e. Rush), but on most CQ maps there is no linear flow or front line. This leads to the vast majority of support gadgets and weapons being largely useless on most non-Rush maps.

Side question: was competitive Rush ever a thing?
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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18

Sunday, June 12th 2016, 4:45am

I think the C4 resupply time is beyond excessive. The shift to requiring 3 bricks to blow a tank was bad enough without also needing ages to get it back. Now, to be completely honest, I am nearly always going to kamikaze when I detonate. Before I used to try to get clear, now I prefer to take the death and come back in fully loaded unless my presence at the current objective is absolutely essential (last man in squad left attacking/defending a flag).
I failed to understand just how C4 was as OP against tanks as Dice was playing it out to be. As someone who primarily plays support 24/7 I have to say that I used to only ever use C4 no matter what map or mode, since the nerf I picked up the Airburst and have stacked over 2,600 kills with it so I suppose I could thank them for broadening my horizons. However, I still don't see how C4 was such a threat to a tank. I'm a lone guy on foot that has to break cover and run through probably lots of gun fire and if by some miracle I survive I have to hope the tank does not run me over or drive away before I can plant the bombs. In case Dice failed to notice, THE ENEMY IS KIND OF IN A TANK! They're not exactly defenseless!

XM25 resupply times should vary. I understand why there's a long wait for the Airburst, this prevents excessive spamming and I'm all for it. But the XM25 Dart (let's face it nobody uses the Smoke variant lol) should be able to refill faster, it has little real spamming potential and even as a backup shotgun it's not really all that good. In very specific situations it can be handy to have, but it's hardly anything that deserves the same long refill time of the Airburst. The M320 Dart/Smoke/FB fall into the same category for me, they have little spam potential compared to their explosive variants and should not be punished with the same long refill time.
"We had defeated one disease after the next. Modern medicine had given us health and hope. A man's existence was no longer confined solely to his work, not that of women to childbearing. Science promised to deliver us heaven on earth, and we were happy to believe that. We had begun to live and our children were going to have it even better, this is something we were sure of.
............until the summer of 1914."
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NoctyrneSAGA

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19

Sunday, June 12th 2016, 5:41am

failed to understand just how C4 was as OP against tanks as Dice was playing it out to be.


Click Click Boom

vs

Click Click Click Boom





Also, "spamming" is a little obscure.
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20

Sunday, June 12th 2016, 1:22pm

Side question: was competitive Rush ever a thing?


Indeed it was, back in BF3 Squad Rush was a popular competitive mode in some regions. It was mostly about effectively reviving to not lose too many tickets. It is way better to watch it compared to the modes we have available to us in BF4. Here's some footage if you're interested. SaGa eSports vs Nexus.BF3 | Bazaar 4v4 Squad Rush | z33k Tournament - YouTube

They're not exactly defenseless!


The issue with C4 against vehicles was mostly prominent on consoles I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I was told that turret sensitivity is fixated, therefore if a support runs up behind you, you won't have enough time to react. Building in a new mechanic was apparently harder than reducing a few numbers, therefore it was chosen over other options. An interesting, recurring theme in the history of the CTE. I believe it was fair, as I don't see why support would only have to dispose of 2/3rd of his explosive gadgets while the engineer pretty much has to dispose of all of them, unless he has perfect timing and positioning.

The real issue with C4 was its damage against infantry and with the low resupply timer, the way you could entirely block off chokepoints, all while the enemy couldn't do a thing about it, because you didn't have to peek out for too long to get the explosive down and then step back to detonate, which made the support hard to shoot. This change emphasised the fact that DICE wanted C4 to be an anti-vehicle explosive rather than an anti-infantry one.

I have to agree on Cheapnub with the topic in hand. It is wasted time to sit on an ammo box for 40-50 seconds essentially doing nothing helpful for my team just to get my rockets back. In it's current form, redeploying or finding a commander supply crate is much easier and overall is better.
Hackintosh user, european player, suppressor lover.
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