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1

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 2:05am

Shotgun barrels - exact details?

Is there any source of precise numerical information on how the following affect semi and pump shotguns:

Modified Choke
Full Choke
Duckbill
Compensator
Muzzle Break

I was hoping to see the exact increase/decrease values, and how they affect the stats of semi and pump shotguns.
Symthic is a great source of data but i have found nothing about this specific information.

Sheepnub

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2

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 6:26am

Is there any source of precise numerical information on how the following affect semi and pump shotguns:

Modified Choke
Full Choke
Duckbill
Compensator
Muzzle Break

I was hoping to see the exact increase/decrease values, and how they affect the stats of semi and pump shotguns.
Symthic is a great source of data but i have found nothing about this specific information.

Modified choke:
0.875 modifier for pellet spread

1.25x moving ADS base spread


Full choke:
0.75x modifier for pellet spread

1.5x moving ADS base spread
1.2x standing hip base spread
1.5x moving hip base spread

Duckbill:
1.5x horizontal pellet spread
0.4x vertical pellet spread

The compensator and muzzle break function just as with other weapons.
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


3

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 12:17pm

Thank you for replying, but if you can please explain:

Your data seems strange compared to the official description of chokes:
"Moderately tightens the shot spread for improved Accuracy, but has penalties for Stability and Hip Fire as well."
"Significantly tightens the shot spread for improved Accuracy, but has penalties for Stability and Hip Fire as well."

According to the official descriptions the chokes should have NO penalties for AimDownSight, while having penalties only for Recoil and Hip Fire.
The official descriptions make it sound like both Chokes are bad for Hip-Fire and Recoil, but they greatly improve AimDownSight for longer distance fights.

Your data suggests that Modified Choke actually seriously harms ADSight while completely improving hip-fire?
And the Full Choke applies an even bigger penalty to ADS that is not mentioned at all?
The recoil penalty (stability) is also not present anywhere in your numbers?

Is your data truly accurate and 100% complete?
Because if you are right, then the official description is completely and utterly wrong...

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Bogdanov89" (May 23rd 2016, 12:42pm)


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4

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 1:01pm

Your data seems strange compared to the official description of chokes:


I'm 99% certain the "official" (IE DICE) description of many of the attachments are incorrect, likely due to the relatively-rapid pace with which things were changing when the CTE was at it's peak. Whereas I'm not him so I can't say, Cheapy Sheepy's probably gone digging through the data file browser for this info so those stats'll come straight from the game files, meaning they'll be 100% correct. Guaranteed. Well, guaranteed if that's what he did :P

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5

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 1:07pm

This is here now, anyone mind removing it? I don't know how to remove my posts...
Where flesh fails, machine endures.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Arquemann" (May 23rd 2016, 3:49pm)


6

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 2:07pm

You seem to have understood wrong.
There is indeed no recoil penalty.
Take note that the ADS penalties are mostly moving ADS.
X modifier for pellet spread tightens the grouping. With hipfire the spread is a cone inside a cone that is hipfire accuracy. So basically a tighter grouping inside your hipfire crosshair, thus hipfire is "less accurate".
Mod. Choke's 1.25x moving ads modifier enlarges your grouping.
Full choke's pellet spread modifier makes the grouping even tighter. Also comes with a more severe penalty to moving ads (pellet grouping larger) and the extra additions in hipfire base spread, further making hipfire less reliable, as a tight grouping in a large crosshair equals less reliable hipfire.
EDIT: dont read, thar made zero sense.


I am confused, did you mean that all you wrote makes no sense and should be ignored?
If that is the case, why did you not simply edit/delete what you wrote?

I am really CHOKing on the confusion about the chokes xD

SO if i understood the modifiers right, both chokes are actually FAR better for "moving hip-fire" than they are for "moving ADS" fire?
And the "standing ADS" fire is in no way made weaker, it is actually only improved by both chokes?
And the Modified Choke does not worsen any kind of hip-fire, it actually nicely improves all the hip fire?
Also the recoil penalties (stability) do not exist on either of the chokes?

So the Modified Choke is about "all Hip-Fire" and stationary "standing ADS" fire?
And the Full Choke is pretty much ONLY for dedicated stationary "standing ADS" Fire?

What is the Duckbill useful for? I tried it a bit and found it kinda useless except for situational FRAG shots?

Sorry for asking so many questions, i am having a tough time understanding everything :(

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "Bogdanov89" (May 23rd 2016, 2:19pm)


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7

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 3:48pm

Maybe I'll use simple examples so I'll understand it myself, too.
As far as I've dwelled to the shotgun stats, a shotgun has pellet spread and base spread.
Pellet spread being how close the individual pelleets are to each other. And the pellets form a circle.
But this circle (pellet spread) happens inside another circle (base spread)
Imagine two circles, the other being smaller and inside the other one. This inner circle is the pellet spread. The outer is the base spread (in hipfire this can be seen as the crosshair)
This inner circle can happen anywhere inside the outer circle, creating the controversial randomness to shotguns in BF4.
With a choke the inner circle becomes smaller (0.75x w/ full choke = 25% smaller pellet spread, smaller inner circle)
Now you have an even smaller circle inside the larger one, but the problem is, the randomness is more pronounced, as the inner circle has more wiggleroom inside the large one, making the accuracy more questionable.
By aiming down the sights, you use ads base spread (smaller outer circle) and so making your inner circle have less variance.
With the base spread and moving spread modifiers you make the outer circle larger or smaller in their respective situations.

Someone wiser should correct me, if im wrong.
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8

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 4:01pm

First, there are kinda two types of accuracy with shotguns. Pellet spread, and Spread. Pellet spread affects how tight the group of pellets fired is. Lower dispersion means the pellets stay together longer, they won't spread out in a cloud of pellets, making many of them miss.
Base Spread affects how the group of pellets leave the barrel, just like with other bullets.

edit: Arquemann explained that better

I am confused, did you mean that all you wrote makes no sense and should be ignored?
If that is the case, why did you not simply edit/delete what you wrote?

I am really CHOKing on the confusion about the chokes xD

SO if i understood the modifiers right, both chokes are actually FAR better for "moving hip-fire" than they are for "moving ADS" fire?
As far as I know, moving ADS is still more accurate than moving hipfire.
And the "standing ADS" fire is in no way made weaker, it is actually only improved by both chokes?
Correct.
And the Modified Choke does not worsen any kind of hip-fire, it actually nicely improves all the hip fire?
Not really. It doesn't affect hipfire accuracy, but the tighter pellet group means you either do a lot of damage or less (as either the spray misses or it hits hard).
Also the recoil penalties (stability) do not exist on either of the chokes?
Nope, symthic stats are usually correct, more often than battlelog anyway.
So the Modified Choke is about "all Hip-Fire" and stationary "standing ADS" fire?
More like, no penalty to hipfire, and tighter pellet spread. It's more versatile, as hipfire is still viable. (I don't know the exact effect tighter pellet spread has on hip fire usefulness though).
And the Full Choke is pretty much ONLY for dedicated stationary "standing ADS" Fire?
Pretty much

What is the Duckbill useful for? I tried it a bit and found it kinda useless except for situational FRAG shots?
It is indeed kinda useless

Sorry for asking so many questions, i am having a tough time understanding everything
No worries, you ask them in a polite way, so I don't mind.

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ammo regen pls

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_____
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Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
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Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting suggestions

Posts I should finish sometime:
Squad priority vehicle system (and anti stealing suggestion)
Scoring system flaws (and concept)
Battlefield definition
New helicopter idea
Suppression rework
Flow, immersion and fun in battlefield
Specializations: ideas and system rework
Gadget reworks and ideas
Why limited infinite ammo would be awesome
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9

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 5:26pm

Awesome replies, thank you very much!

If anyone wants to add more info or provide their own explanation please do :)

Sheepnub

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10

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 6:12pm

Awesome replies, thank you very much!

If anyone wants to add more info or provide their own explanation please do :)

As requested.
Your data suggests that Modified Choke actually seriously harms ADSight while completely improving hip-fire?

No. It harms your ADS spread while moving.
No. Hipfire is completely untouched by the mod choke. It improves the pellet spread. This is the diversion of the pellets themselves, rather than the values of the weapon.

You are misinterpreting the information. The point of the chokes is improving your shotgun's performance under the right circumstances. Meaning: Ideally not moving (and in the full choke's case also preferably while ADS).
And the Full Choke applies an even bigger penalty to ADS that is not mentioned at all?

Yes, because it also has a bigger benefit (the even further reduced pellet spread). But, once again, this penalty is only active when moving.
The recoil penalty (stability) is also not present anywhere in your numbers?

Correct. That is because it doesn't exist.
Is your data truly accurate and 100% complete?

Yes.
Because if you are right, then the official description is completely and utterly wrong...

Indeed.

Take a look around on battlelog and compare the stats displayed there to the stats we extract from the game itself. The stats displayed on battlelog are hilariously wrong hilariously often.
The descriptions are usually even worse.
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about