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Posts: 338

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: Jan 31st 2014

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41

Sunday, May 8th 2016, 12:38am

Give assault ammo and support revives and heals, ala bc2. I think it was a better balance provided ARs stay more effective than lmgs.
That makes way too much sense, I don't think we'll ever see it happen :(
Maybe we don't see it because it actually doesn't make sense?
I thought it was common knowledge that giving healing + revives to the kit with the most effective anti-infantry guns was terrible design.

Support, as the name implies, should receive the best team-supporting gadgets i.e. heals/revives/etc. Assault, as the name implies, should have the most offensive toolkit i.e. best guns, ammo, etc.

NoctyrneSAGA

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42

Sunday, May 8th 2016, 12:54am

I thought it was common knowledge that giving healing + revives to the kit with the most effective anti-infantry guns was terrible design.


It is almost as if that set-up was meant to make Assault good at direct anti-infantry combat while Support would be able to maintain eternal sustained (indirect) fire.

Turn it around and Support isn't able to maintain sustained fire anymore. But now Assault gets infinite ammo for their extremely versatile weapon (which they should but that's another discussion).

The only worth Support would have is healing Assault players. And congratulations, you have implemented Trinity gameplay into First Person Shooters (Point and Click With Guns) years after it appeared in RPGs.



Battlefield can do better than that. If Battlefield 1's presentation has shown anything, it is that DICE wants to continue to be an industry leader and trend-setter instead of playing catch-up with other genres.



Also, Assault already has the best offensive loadout in the game if players choose to use it.

Primary weapon, Secondary weapon, Grenade Launcher, and Shotgun at the same time looks really Assault-y to me.
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43

Sunday, May 8th 2016, 6:27am

@NoctyrneSAGA

What if instead of making healing or ammo packs exclusive to one class, you could swap out your hand grenades for them?

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44

Sunday, May 8th 2016, 6:39am

What if every class had access to replenishing their own resources?

And that there would be a couple of classes that would be able to boost those abilities?
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45

Sunday, May 8th 2016, 7:46am

I thought it was common knowledge that giving healing + revives to the kit with the most effective anti-infantry guns was terrible design.


It is almost as if that set-up was meant to make Assault good at direct anti-infantry combat while Support would be able to maintain eternal sustained (indirect) fire.

Turn it around and Support isn't able to maintain sustained fire anymore. But now Assault gets infinite ammo for their extremely versatile weapon (which they should but that's another discussion).
Sustained indirect fire i.e. holding the trigger down while not aiming directly at enemies? Who even does that and why would they? Suppression became irrelevant a long time ago (and good riddance). If a support manages to finish their LMG rounds then they have fired at a LOT of people and they need to find an assault for ammo.

Meanwhile assault getting ammo would absolutely be a nerf to them and they'll be crying to get their health+revives back. Know why? Because the vast majority of assault players die before they exhaust their ammo. And that's only with defensive perk, if they're running offensive perk then ammo almost becomes irrelevant to them. Assault should be decent for infantry play, but in BF4 they are MILES ahead of any other kit at that role due to their sheer lone-wolf capability with ARs+health.


I'm looking forward to what DICE have in mind for BF1.

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46

Sunday, May 8th 2016, 8:38am

Sustained indirect fire i.e. holding the trigger down while not aiming directly at enemies? Who even does that and why would they? Suppression became irrelevant a long time ago (and good riddance). If a support manages to finish their LMG rounds then they have fired at a LOT of people and they need to find an assault for ammo.


yfw Suppression's new effects are actually really strong and make it a worthwhile endeavor.

Your belief that it is worthless simply indicates your lack of knowledge on its potency and how it improves gameplay.

Meanwhile assault getting ammo would absolutely be a nerf to them and they'll be crying to get their health+revives back. Know why? Because the vast majority of assault players die before they exhaust their ammo. And that's only with defensive perk, if they're running offensive perk then ammo almost becomes irrelevant to them. Assault should be decent for infantry play, but in BF4 they are MILES ahead of any other kit at that role due to their sheer lone-wolf capability with ARs+health.


Certainly. It's a nerf to both Assault and Support. Neither can really accomplish what they're designed to do (direct infantry combat and indirect fire). Designing something to not do its own job seems a little counterintuitive.

People didn't play Assault just for the rifles. They played it for on-demand healing.

Swapping the medkits around will just cause people to play the class that has the medkit. Not to mention that LMGs have more bullets than ARs by default. It is not as if LMG performance cannot nearly match AR performance either.



Support is actually better at lone-wolfing. Health regen was added long ago (fantastic addition by the way). Infantry ammo regen is nonexistent aside from Ammo Boxes (which will hopefully be rectified in the future).

Good players will stay alive for long periods of time. Not having ammo kind of hurts them for surviving all their engagements.
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47

Saturday, May 14th 2016, 12:22pm

LMGs that supports have need some buffs, or at least "quality of life" improvements.
Being more accurate to ADS fire when moving, bipod needs to be INSTANT (or even just a passive bonus when near barricade)...

Ammo box should be a default part of EVERY support (not taking a gadget slot), and it should resupply engineer rockets faster - or just make it an "aura" around the support player.
Honestly i would completely remove the idea of resupplying damaging hand-grenades, it just creates a ton of spam.

Several of support gadgets should be fused into one "slot", like the grenade XM25 being the same "gadget" as shotgun XM25 (you just switch ammo types).
It is also an interesting idea that Supports should be able to equip a medkit in a gadget slot, just like assault, while also keeping their passive (free) ammobox.

When in prone and bypod the support should have some kind of a small metal shield to help absorb shots coming from the enemy while laying covering fire.
Overall weapon handling need to be improved like accuracy, reload, slowness...

Right now support feels like an Assault with clumsy weapons and weaker gadgets... why would you ever want that on your team?
Have 2 players go shotguns/DMR just to drop an ammobox and that is plenty for a 64 player server...

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48

Sunday, May 15th 2016, 2:39pm

Map and Mode Matter

I agree with a lot of what's being said. But there is one map and mode ( out of literally hundreds of combinations) that support is useful and that is Operation Locker Conquest mode. The snow lane is the one way to flank the objectives and the battle centers on objective C usually. C has a m82A1 in the snow lane so if the fire from the Snipers is too much the mortar is actually effective there. Also supplying ammo at the choke points between the objectives can be quite helpful as well. But for the design of the class the amount of usefulness is quite sad. Quicker deploying bipods, allowing the LMG the ability to shoot down the helo's and better spots to set up machine gun nests (pillboxes, etc) on the maps would be helpful. :)

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: May 23rd 2016

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49

Monday, May 23rd 2016, 11:26pm

Support Class

On many TDM maps support is effective with a mortar and DMR, though as many stated it could be much better. An option moving forward might be on vehicle maps to have a mortar which is more deadly and reaches the whole map. Also where a commander is present the ability for squads to request mortar help and commander relay that request to mortars. Quick ability to switch from HE to AP to smoke would also help. This would make mortars more realistic and useful, similar to on-call artillery.

Mortars can be used to turn the tide in a game but only in TDM.