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  • "Veritable" started this thread

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: Dec 8th 2013

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Saturday, February 13th 2016, 3:39am

Reality Check - How Fast Can You Comfortably "Micro-Burst"?

Hello there, I need a bit of a "reality check."

As you might have noticed, my primary interest relating to Symthic + BF is in researching how to shoot efficiently. It stems from ~90% of my primary weapon kills coming from DMRs, which does high damage per click but also has high SIPS and relatively slow SDec. Thus, shooting cadence... where you pause to allow SIPS to recover... is absolutely VITAL. Shoot too fast, and you get frustrated because your aim point is on target but no hitmarker... shoot too slow, and you get out-TTKed by EVERYTHING.

A tangent to that, is setting a nominally automatic weapon to its Burst mode, because functionally that is like shooting a DMR. A tangent to THAT, for guns without a burst-fire mode, you can do "micro-bursting" by holding the trigger just long enough for 2-3 bullets to be fired.

I justify simulating weapons being fired like that, because I simply cannot imagine people would hold down the trigger and shoot an entire magazine off at targets 50m+ away. Long before that, I thought the shooter would be alarmed by the amount of Recoil (both V- and H-) they see on the screen, plus the utter lack of hitmarkers due to SIPS, that the shooter would stop and allow the gun to recover.

I liken it to you touching a hot surface, your nerve endings sending PAIN signals to your brain to tell you to STOP THIS, and you will STOP touching it until it cools down. Then again I'm not a psychology major so maybe that analogy is totally wrong... but hopefully you catch my meaning.

Now that I have the formula to calculate Shooting Mechanics for any burst length, though, I started toying around with the question: given sufficiently high hitrate, is it still more efficient to burst / micro-burst? Or is it faster if you hold down the trigger until the kill registers?


Let's look at one case:

Weapon - QBZ-95-1
Attachments - HBar + Ergo
Range and Stance - 40m, ADS Strafing with Slow Optic
Bullet Damage - 20.737

Let's shoot it in fully automatic first. According to Hitrater, if you shoot 6 bullets in this instance, you can expect 4.9 hits. This is significant (and partly why I chose to highlight this case), because the expected damage is... 101.6113. Thus, you can reasonably conclude that in just about 100% of the time, you will secure a kill, if you are able to counter V-Recoil, in this situation.

"Perfect!" You say. "So every time I'm 40m away and I'm strafing, I shoot 6 bullets!"

Not so fast. According to Shooting Mechanics, if you are playing on a 40Hz server (getting more common now in CQL modes), it takes 22 / 40 frames to fire 6 bullets and then be ready for the next round. It will take 2 more frames to recover from the induced SIPS. With all that added together, I came up with a TTK of ~0.5905s.

Now let's set the gun to its 3RB mode. Again according to Hitrater, if you shoot 3 bullets in this instance, you can expect 2.86 hits, doing 59.30782 damage each time you click. In the same 40Hz server, it takes 11 / 40 frames to fire 3 bullets, plus 1 more frame to recover. Again, once you consider everything, I came up with a TTK of... 0.5058s.

You can see how that comes about: both the 6RB and 3RB takes 24 / 40 frames to finish doing their things, but 6RB nets you ~102 damage while 3RB x 2 gives you ~59.31 x 2 = ~119 damage. Higher damage, same "time," lower TTK.


Of course, I realize that maintaining such "performance," having to consistently pull off perfect burst intervals, is probably not easy. When I looked at shooting 2RB out of 700RPM weapons (it is a setting with the CZ-805 and UMP-9), you need to do a click-rate of between 300 - ~342RPM, depending on server tick-rate. I tried that, and it is HARD! But such usage propels them to the top of my rankings. For now I have the AUG A3, AR160, CZ-805 and L86A1 at the top of my charts, all of them 700RPM and simulated by shooting 2RB. Ak5C, best Carbine, again 700RPM.

So, I'm wondering... is that a useful conclusion to draw, if very few people can achieve that performance? Or maybe I just suck at this clicking thing and in fact the majority of BF4 players do this easily? A poll, then!

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Saturday, February 13th 2016, 4:51am

dude, i'm definitely not a fast shot, but based on your poll, i should be one, considering i can shoot the cz75 just below max rpm extremely comfortably(it's basically my natural clickrate, that's why i fell in love with the gun, aside from the sexy looks)
"I'm just a loot whore."

stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody

on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots





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  • "Veritable" started this thread

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: Dec 8th 2013

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Saturday, February 13th 2016, 8:49am


Max RPM - 360

"Optimal" RPM, 30Hz - 300
...40Hz - ~342
...60Hz - ~327

Other weapons that my worksheet suggest to shoot at similar rates:


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Saturday, February 13th 2016, 4:19pm

I can very comfortably 2RB 600RPM guns, but I do find when I panic pistol I would jam the CZ75 by clicking too fast, but I dont consider that a "comfortable" situation.

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Sunday, February 14th 2016, 5:41am

I have a tendency to click at 200-250 no matter what weapon it is. (I can't reliably click 300+ for long periods of time, unless I'm listening to music)
I love the math behind the statistics
It's possible to find me online at almost any given time, due to the fact that my schedule is hectic and rather non-existent.

Who needs sleep anyways?
(PC/PS4 gamer)

Various bf4 spreadsheets: (nothing special, just raw data from the Symthic website put into a spreadsheet to analyze all values at once)

Spoiler Spoiler

General Weapon spreadsheet:
Soldier Equipment:
Interactive Damage Table
bf4_dmg_at_range - Google Sheets
Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
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Suppressed bf4_sniper_guide
More user friendly Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Sniper rifle Bullet Drop Chart
More user friendly Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart

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Monday, May 8th 2017, 6:06pm

I usually click at something between 230-350 rpm mainly because my best weapons are the m16 and ak12 ( at least in my old account ) and that probably is the same determiner for the most. Additionally when I took a break from BF4 my clicking rate got to something between 325-370 rpm.
"Before God We Are All Equal - All Equally Wise, And Equally Foolish"- Albert Einstein


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Monday, May 8th 2017, 6:19pm


Please do not post on threads that have been inactive for some time (month or more, let alone a year).
See Rule 11 here.

Thread closed.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

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